Shutdown

[acaTerry]

You can't be serious. I mean, I hope that's mindless flame-bait, because otherwise it's really really scary.

Prove me wrong. Very few companies pay what is fair. I'm not exactly a bat-swinging union or die man, but until unions came along safety, pay and working conditions were absurd. Compare the amount of work related deaths in the auto, aviation, and construction industries to the amount we have today.
Look at the fact that people are laid off in droves due to automation while pay decreases and product pricing remains high.
Please provide me with some examples of the many companies that voluntarily provide a good wage and benefits program for nonunionized employees.
Don't get me wrong. I love my job and overall I think NJA is a great place to work, especially after living througfh 2 airlines. But come on, $29,000 for a 3rd year FO who has over 3000 hours and a couple type ratings?

 

[h25b]

Don't get me wrong. I love my job and overall I think NJA is a great place to work, especially after living througfh 2 airlines. But come on, $29,000 for a 3rd year FO who has over 3000 hours and a couple type ratings?

My next question would be.. Why in the heck would anyone with over 3000 hrs. and a couple type ratings work for 3 years for under $29,000 ??? Why did you ? You obviously thought it was an acceptable wage at the start right ? We're just all very confused.

 

[acaTerry]

My next question would be.. Why in the heck would anyone with over 3000 hrs. and a couple type ratings work for 3 years for under $29,000 ??? Why did you ? You obviously thought it was an acceptable wage at the start right ? We're just all very confused.

Several posts ago you were telling us to stop fussing and fighting for a decent contract. Now you are asking us why don't we do something about it. You just answered your own question.
Yes, the job is good. I am quite happy with it. But happiness with the job does not pay the bills. All it needs to make this the perfect job for many of us is to pay now. This is where we are and this is where we'll be.
NetJets was a raise of about $10,000 from my airline job. So yes it was a step up. But the small step to a higher level of inadequate pay is just a stop along the way to getting what a professional pilot should make. Pilot pay is now at a nearly all time low. Dollar for dollar, throughout the industry we are making less now than we were 20 years ago.
NetJets' problems are not pilot induced---ask the owners. You'll see nearly 100% satisfaction with flight crews in the owner surveys. So why is it so hard to get a raise? Quitting is not the answer. This contract will settle sooner or later.

 

[On Your Six]

My next question would be.. Why in the heck would anyone with over 3000 hrs. and a couple type ratings work for 3 years for under $29,000 ??? Why did you ? You obviously thought it was an acceptable wage at the start right ? We're just all very confused.

These comments aren't very helpful - in fact they're pretty condescending. The fact is that NJA pilots have been operating for years without a reasonable and fair contract by any definition - especially when compared to their counterparts flying the same aircraft on the corporate side. Does anyone think paying a Citation X Captain $60K per year is fair - even with the so-called stability and schedule? No sane person would consider that amount fair or reasonable.

NJA management has not been negotiating in good faith... I know people who have joined NJA with the expectation that the contract would improve to "acceptable" levels - a few have since departed because of the lack of progress.

Bottom line: NJA will continue to lose some of its more experienced and "safest" pilots if the situation does not improve. JetBlue, AirTran and SWA are ramping up and present themselves as better LONG-TERM career options given NJA's hostile and disrespectful employee environment.

I wonder how the owners would feel if they knew their many of their pilots were plotting their exit strategies...

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Prove me wrong. Very few companies pay what is fair.

But you seem to have it backwards. The only company that DOESN'T pay fair is the one that is 'forced' to by a union. All of us working for companies that are not 'forced' to pay any certain amount are starting us above 6 figures and giving us stock options, bonuses, etc. Explain that!

Ace

 

[Hogprint]

But you seem to have it backwards. The only company that DOESN'T pay fair is the one that is 'forced' to by a union. All of us working for companies that are not 'forced' to pay any certain amount are starting us above 6 figures and giving us stock options, bonuses, etc. Explain that!

Ace

How do you explain the other non-union frax then? Even NJI starts below 6 figs...

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

How do you explain the other non-union frax then? Even NJI starts below 6 figs...

NJA was the first, they set a president and the rest of the frax followed. The majority of the industry (19 and 135) are non-union and pay MORE.

Ace

 

[dsptchrnja]

....given NJA's hostile...employee environment.

Huh? My friend if I worked for a company that was actually hostile towards me I would not last another day. The more over-the-top and exaggerated your comments become the harder it is to believe anything else you post.

 

[Hogprint]

Ace,

You are correct with the above statement, but why would, say a Flex not pay more and try and bury the competition?

 

[gern_blanston]

Prove me wrong. Very few companies pay what is fair.

What's 'fair'? Most employees are gonna' vote high, and most employers are gonna' vote low. No company is obligated to be 'fair'. Some companies are good to work for, some aren't. 'Fair' is what you get paid. If you aren't happy with it, you go somewhere else, if they can't find someone, they offer a little bit more. Just that simple.

Look at the fact that people are laid off in droves due to automation while pay decreases and product pricing remains high.

Easy. Companies exist to make a profit. If a company can't compete because the competition is using more robots for better Q/C and lower labor costs, they are forced to change their way of doing things, or they go out of business. How 'fair' is that? Adapt or die. It's like insisting that the corset factory keep producing hand-made corsets so the employees can keep their jobs. Ain't gonna' happen.
I repeat: Companies exist to make a profit.

Please provide me with some examples of the many companies that voluntarily provide a good wage and benefits program for nonunionized employees.

You can't be serious! You haven't been around much if you can't figger that one out. Some union's been pumping your head full if fairy tails. There are plenty of good jobs around that aren't union.
And you pretty much disprove your own point, don't you? I mean the low-paying job that you complain about is a union job, isn't it? This is why non-union guys like me scratch our heads.

 

[aeronautic1]

I need an FO

qualified in the G200

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Ace,

You are correct with the above statement, but why would, say a Flex not pay more and try and bury the competition?

I'm not sure I understand your question. How would having a higher cost of operation (paying more) bury the competition.

Ace

 

[Hogprint]

Yeah, I wasn't clear. I guess what I'm asking you is why would the other non-union frax pay just as low wages as NJA if as you say the majority of the industry are paying more?

What I'm hinting at is that this doesn't seem to be a union/non union issue. Piss poor pay is piss poor, no matter how you look at it.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Please provide me with some examples of the many companies that voluntarily provide a good wage and benefits program for nonunionized employees.

NJA, NJI, EJM for starters. They all employ non-negotiating employees that make good wages and benefits.

NJA negotiating employees, I hope, will not be far behind.

It's just so hard to comprehend how many can portray their union as their saviour from low wages when they are the lowest paid if compared to non-union employees from the same company! At what point do you have to start admitting the union is part of the problem???

So why is it so hard to get a raise?

Well, take a look at what the union is asking for - it forces the company to engage in years-long battles until they can agree on something affordable and agreeable. They don't have this "problem" with non-union employees. No politics, no fuss, no nogotiating - you get what they give you. I don't like it - I go somewher else... because I don't have an organization to keep me around on the hopeful promise I can cash in on WB's personal wealth.

A couple weeks ago someone gave up asking how much you are asking for after repeating his question several times - no one would answer. I sense perhaps there is almost an embarassment to tell anyone what you want - double of your current base pay - because it appears obviously incredulous to anyone who hears it.

 

[h25b]

These comments aren't very helpful - in fact they're pretty condescending. The fact is that NJA pilots have been operating for years without a reasonable and fair contract by any definition - especially when compared to their counterparts flying the same aircraft on the corporate side. Does anyone think paying a Citation X Captain $60K per year is fair - even with the so-called stability and schedule? No sane person would consider that amount fair or reasonable.

Who the h%ll said I was trying to be helpful ? The militant wing of your union burned the bridge with me and hundreds of others when they started with the scab-list threat for the 135 sell-off flights. As for the condescending remark, I guess the truth hurts.

You just proved my point and admitted your own mistake. The payscale has been horrible since its inception... If you went to work pinning your hopes that things would improve with the next new contract, well, shame on you...

NJA management has not been negotiating in good faith... I know people who have joined NJA with the expectation that the contract would improve to "acceptable" levels - a few have since departed because of the lack of progress.

You're just now figuring this out ??? WOW ! At least a "few" are starting to wise up...

Bottom line: NJA will continue to lose some of its more experienced and "safest" pilots if the situation does not improve. JetBlue, AirTran and SWA are ramping up and present themselves as better LONG-TERM career options given NJA's hostile and disrespectful employee environment.

Newsflash... Get in line behind THOUSANDS of other candidates WITH 121 time. I hear the competition is fierce. Your management has already proven that they don't care... And let me fill you in on another dirty secret, the "safest" pilots B.S. is just a sales ploy to sell shares and behind the scenes I hear that NJA is hiring just about any pilot who fogs a mirror when it's held in front of their face at the interview. I guess they are having little success because word has finally gotten out that the place sucks.

For crying out loud, people with 600 TT are going to regionals straight in to RJ's and upgrading in 1 yr., with better QOL...

I wonder how the owners would feel if they knew their many of their pilots were plotting their exit strategies...

This statement is my personal favorite... THEY DON'T CARE. If they gave a squat about seeing the same faces in the cockpit every time they flew and wanted to have NBAA compensated flight crews, they'd have their own plane/crew.