should I buy a cessna for training?

[comander]

How does it work, what type of ratings can I get in my own c-150 or c-172?
can I get commercial licence in a c-150? or cfi? what happens with multi after that?
how expensive is the insurance, and how easy is it to sell the plane later on?
How many of you people have done this, and how good has it result?
thanks in advance!

 

[doug_or]

You'll need retracts and a constant speed prop for the CFI and commercial.

 

[gkrangers]

You can bolt on a second engine for the multi.

 

[Almerick07]

Well if youre serious about buying an airplane for training puposes go with a C-172RG, nice little 180hp cont. pulling a complex body. It will get you all the way from PPL-CFI (minus multi) as far as multi goes you need 15 hours which comes to about 3 large. An option I would look at is to lease it to the flight school you want to take lessons from, they could probably work out a deal as far as dual instruction goes and it makes cost of ownership more feasible. Down side to this are insurance goes up (used for instruction) and MX is increased 100 hour inspection opposed to an annual. Im not too sure on the numbers but if you had the cash to buy an RG this might be your best bet. Airplanes are like houses, keep it maintained and maybe improve it a little and you will get your money out of it.

 

[viper548]

You can buy a 152 or 172 and just rent a retract for the 10 hours of commercial training and the checkride.

 

[ToiletDuck]

I'd say get a 182 for the high perf.

 

[cougar6903]

LoL, Love all the advise from people who have never owned an aircraft.

 

[ToiletDuck]

How do you know who has and hasn't? As far that the leasing it to the flight school goes that's not a bad idea. It was a pretty big practice at McGregor Tx at one time. Not exactly sure what deal the own had with them but anytime he wanted it he took it. Can't be too bad. Wouldn't hurt to make sure the mx program is a good one though.

 

[lasflyer]

I would think that the most cost effective means of building time and earning ratings and certificates would be to buy into a partnership or flying club. True, you only need 10 hours of retractable time for the commercial, but with only 10 hours you'll have trouble with both insurance companies and prospective employers. If you intend to make this a career you will need considerably more time in complex retractables.

A few years back I bought a share of an older Mooney. I was able to build a few hundred hours of retrac time and become proficient again at instruments and the cost ran about 500 a month for everything except fuel, and that included hanger, maintenance, insurance, engine reserve and 10 hours of flight time. Additional hours were $50 if I recall correctly. I did buy in for my share but got more when I sold.

 

[DrProc]

Buy a Cessna 150, or Cub, or a Taylorcraft. Get your private and log 150 or so hours, then sell and buy a Warrior or 172 for your instrument. Rent a retractable for commercial and CFI

 

[viper548]

LoL, Love all the advise from people who have never owned an aircraft.

Many pilots that haven't owned have extensivly researched it though. I researched buying a PA-28 to do my training, but I wouldn't have been able to use my VA benefits, so it didn't work for me. I would suggest getting a practical plane for training, ie 152, 172, pa-28

 

[BD King]

Cessna 150. You can burn auto fuel.

www.bdkingpress.com

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

I'd have to go with BD here. Get a 150...MUCH cheaper than a 152. There are more of them, and you can find one with half the hours and half the cost of a 152.

A 172 would also work, but since they are more in demand from the causal flyer crowd, you will pay a premium for the extra 2 seats. The fuel you save will give you an extra hour of flying in every 4.

Don't even think about an RG or a high perf. The insurance will eat you alive. The money you save will be worth tens of hours of flying.

Nu

 

[DaveJ]

I bought a 150 right after getting my private and used it for everything up to CFI (rented an Arrow for the commercial ride). Worked out great. Plus you build plenty of time on the x-countries because the thing is so darned slow!

 

[JimNtexas]

How do you know who has and hasn't? As far that the leasing it to the flight school goes that's not a bad idea. It was a pretty big practice at McGregor Tx at one time. Not exactly sure what deal the own had with them but anytime he wanted it he took it. Can't be too bad. Wouldn't hurt to make sure the mx program is a good one though.

Leaseback is a suckers game, otherwise the FBOs would buy their own planes to begin with.

The best thing for the new student to do if he is committed to aviation would be to buy a C-150 with a good pre-buy and recent annual. The really great thing about that is that with your C-150 you can get that 1200 hours you need for part 135 quickly and cheaply, and maybe not have to spend as long instructing fat smelly old farts like me.

 

[A1FlyBoy]

Isn't this "rich boy" PFT?






Sorry, I couldn't resist!

 

[NuGuy]

Leaseback is a suckers game, otherwise the FBOs would buy their own planes to begin with.

The best thing for the new student to do if he is committed to aviation would be to buy a C-150 with a good pre-buy and recent annual. The really great thing about that is that with your C-150 you can get that 1200 hours you need for part 135 quickly and cheaply, and maybe not have to spend as long instructing fat smelly old farts like me.

Jim is correct. Leasebacks are for suckers. The FBO/flight school will nick you for cash comming and going and charge you to use your own aircraft on top. The very, very best you could hope for is to marginally decrease the cost of your hours as opposed to renting, and for that, it's certainly not worth the trouble, lost utility and expense.

The ONLY way to "make" any money with this game is to buy an aircraft NEW, and then use the provisions of the accelerated depreciation schedule currently allowed by federal tax law, and then sell the aircraft in a year or two. But you have to have a business already set up, and there has to be enough cash flow to make the deduction worth anything. In other words, unless you already have the cash, it's not worth it.

That's the only reason you see new aircraft for leaseback. The owners don't give 2 $hits if they fly or not (thus the insane rental rates), because they make their money off the back end with the depreciation and the sell off. It's really just a tax dodge.

Nu

 

[JimNtexas]

Isn't this "rich boy" PFT?

Not when we're talking C-150 for a person willing to sacrifice other things in his life.

Now, a lot of you "poor boys" are only "poor" because you got married young just because you didn't want to take a chance on not getting laid for another year, bought a nice car on credit, had a kid you can't afford, smoke, drink, and sniff glue, and then wonder why you can't afford to fly.

 

[navigator72]

Buy a Super Cub put some bid ol' tundra tires on it and take it to Alaska.

 

[mnalpha]

do that thing that jesse james did to a car. he put some wings on it and a prop and it flew. Thats what I would do, then you could also drive like a cabby if you did not want to fly some day.

 

[comander]

Thanks for some great addvice...

No I am not rich but I wish to continue with my flying career, The real deal is, lets say I can get 50k Would it be better to buy a plane like we are talking about or get into a flight academy? what would give me more in this industry ?

 

[Immelman]

Isn't this "rich boy" PFT?






Sorry, I couldn't resist!

No, this is "smart" boy P(?)FT. You selll the airplane at the end. Dumb PFT guys cannot do this. You also save money versus renting if you fly it > 100 hours a year or so....

 

[Vector4fun]

If you can find an IFR C150, and you fit comfortably in it's smaller seats, then by all means buy one. By IFR, I mean it needs to have the radios necessary to get your IFR training, and then have the inspections required to make it legal for IFR flight. A lot of C150s won't have enough nav equipment to get you through the Instrument rating.

Insurance is going to be a bit steep until you have around 200 hrs and the instrument rating. It should get pretty reasonable afterwards. I pay $800/yr for an IFR C172 insured for around $50K. If you can afford a hanger where you're at, then I recommend you hangar it. If you leave it tied down outside, it's going to need an interior and paint in about 5-7 years. (At least in Texas it would). That's if a hail storm or microburst doesn't destroy it first. If you get a good one, I'd budget around $100/mo for maint and annuals. Could run more or a bit less depending on the condition of the aircraft and the price of maint where you are. My C172 has cost around $4K per year for fixed costs, insurance, hangar, and maint./annuals.

 

[Publishers]

We just had this discussion this morning.. I think that it depends on your ability to handle the cash requirements of the capital expenses.

While it has been a few years, we bought a Cherokee 180, then an Arrow, and then an Aztec. We never sold an aircraft for less than we paid for it and made money on the Arrow and Aztec. We custom painted and N numbered and did little things that ended up increasing the value.

The question this morning was should we have just bought the Arrow and skipped the 180 as we knew the objective was a multi instrument ticket and headed there from the start. I think that it would have made sense. The operating cost was not significantly different and we made money and had a larger market for the Arrow.

If money had not been an object, we would have done the instrument in the Aztec to have better training for later. Sort of get the maximum training in the aircraft you think you will end up flying trips in.

 

[A1FlyBoy]

While that was a joke, I'm sure there are some who consider airplane ownership of any sort, including a C-152, 'rich boy PFT'....

 

[Vik]

172RG is cursed. Its a mx nightmare. Please don't do something that stupid.

Do buy a C-152 to get your private, insturment and build time. It'll also initiate you very cheaply into aircraft ownership.

I own a twin and its a huge learning curve. I'm thinking of going back to a single.