Should captain pay top out at 150K?

[milky]

Don't try to sell your reality here. Nobody wants to hear it. I think that's the sentiment. We deserve more, and we'll keep complaining on a chat forum until we get it.

Oh, you want to me risk my job for it? I do have a family to raise and bills to pay. I'm 'barely' getting by on what I make. I cannot afford to risk that.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Oh, you want to me risk my job for it? I do have a family to raise and bills to pay. I'm 'barely' getting by on what I make. I cannot afford to risk that.

They are betting on that.

 

[Bringupthebird]

You're a moron. AirTran had dozens of pilots make that last year, you jackass.

At $153/hr, seems pretty difficult.

I don't begrudge anyone making money, that's what we're here for. But to think that the clock will be rolled back to 1971 just because we think it should be just makes the entire profession look like fools.

Your post proves that you're a reasonable, thoughtful man. What evidence can you cite that shows wages headed on the upswing in the next 6-12 months?

 

[Ty Webb]

Anyone who knows our contract/work rules/scheduling inefficiencies has no problem understanding that making 25- 50% more than your hourly rate x 1,000 is not that hard to do.

 

[Green]

At $153/hr, seems pretty difficult.

I don't begrudge anyone making money, that's what we're here for. But to think that the clock will be rolled back to 1971 just because we think it should be just makes the entire profession look like fools.

Your post proves that you're a reasonable, thoughtful man. What evidence can you cite that shows wages headed on the upswing in the next 6-12 months?

you've either spent too long at AWA or have listened to too many brown bag lunches. You sound like you're starting to believe Parker's BS! Oil can go from 40 to 90 a barrel and the company still makes money yet they can't afford to pay us 200k??? That spike in oil eclipses any pay raise we could dream of and the company adjusted just fine. I believe the cp's office was quoting 100/barrel as our break even point. Of course they won't come out and say "sure we can afford to pay more.." But if we ever grow the cajones to demand more they will adapt just fine.

 

[jhiflyin]

no it shouldn't

 

[Bringupthebird]

you've either spent too long at AWA or have listened to too many brown bag lunches. You sound like you're starting to believe Parker's BS! Oil can go from 40 to 90 a barrel and the company still makes money yet they can't afford to pay us 200k??? That spike in oil eclipses any pay raise we could dream of and the company adjusted just fine. I believe the cp's office was quoting 100/barrel as our break even point. Of course they won't come out and say "sure we can afford to pay more.." But if we ever grow the cajones to demand more they will adapt just fine.

The company "adjusted" by kicking 98 fellow pilots to the curb and due to hedges is still paying double or more for jet fuel, but that's not the point.

The point is that the underlying fundamental source of leverage that pilots need to gain substantial gains in wages (and it's more than having a collective will)simply doesn't exist. Wages spiraled upwards during a time when the survival of an airline depended on rapid expansion. Now Parkers and the rest of the CEO underachievers could care less if an airline survives or not. They have little invested personally and could have an easier time attracting start-up capital than they would funding an airline whose labor costs were even slightly skewed upward. In fact airlines like NW scrambled to perpetuate the post 9-11 crisis in order to foster an environment that hindered wage rebounds even if it meant largely missing out on the small sliver of good times the airlines enjoyed.

No, I do not believe that pilot wages are tied to what management perceives they can afford, but on their collective willingness to let the wage genie out of the bottle when they've spent the last 25 years getting him in.

The original title of this thread asked if captain pay SHOULD top out at 150K. I am simply saying that 150K will likely be the "good old days" 5 years from now and there won't be one pilot job that goes unfilled, although many of the current pilots will (or should) leave for for more lucrative careers by then.

 

[C180drvr]

InstructorDude and the other person are truly ignorant. Only in the airline profession will you find goofballs even discussing what we "should" earn or what a company "can afford". Completely ridiculous. My friends in other professions such as law, medicine, etc. never would discuss they shouldn't earn more than X. As far as experience, I have friends who hired on with law firms starting at $165K with 3 years training - law school. They never went to the firm and said it's too much. Ignorant people such as these denigrate the profession. Airline pilots have significant training and responsibility comparable to other highly skilled professions, yet only we have goofballs that would suggest caps on earning or think they're qualified to suggest what we "should" earn.

 

[Aviator7576]

200k...why yes we can!

Bringupthebird...

Not sure where you are getting you salary info,but ALL ups captains make over 200k/yr. I'm sure the same can be said of fedex captains as well. Just because you have lowered expectations for yourself, don't pass those on to your children for heaven's sake. They deserve a better life than apparently you can dream.

As far as Sig and his fighter pilot resume, not sure how you can amass 12k hours flying and still be in your 20s. I've heard of the rubber pencil, but that is ridiculous! Navy fighter guys just don't accumulate that kind of time 1.2 at a time.

JTF

Aviator7576

 

[Green]

The company "adjusted" by kicking 98 fellow pilots to the curb and due to hedges is still paying double or more for jet fuel, but that's not the point.

The point is that the underlying fundamental source of leverage that pilots need to gain substantial gains in wages (and it's more than having a collective will)simply doesn't exist. Wages spiraled upwards during a time when the survival of an airline depended on rapid expansion. Now Parkers and the rest of the CEO underachievers could care less if an airline survives or not. They have little invested personally and could have an easier time attracting start-up capital than they would funding an airline whose labor costs were even slightly skewed upward. In fact airlines like NW scrambled to perpetuate the post 9-11 crisis in order to foster an environment that hindered wage rebounds even if it meant largely missing out on the small sliver of good times the airlines enjoyed.

No, I do not believe that pilot wages are tied to what management perceives they can afford, but on their collective willingness to let the wage genie out of the bottle when they've spent the last 25 years getting him in.

The original title of this thread asked if captain pay SHOULD top out at 150K. I am simply saying that 150K will likely be the "good old days" 5 years from now and there won't be one pilot job that goes unfilled, although many of the current pilots will (or should) leave for for more lucrative careers by then.

It was never easy to get significant payraises....Point to one good post-deregulation contract that didn't require significant risks (strike, slowdown, etc). Instead of coming up with excuses for management we should be developing strategies to restore the profession. Pilots these days just don't seem to have the cajones to get the job done. It's embarrassing.

You talk market forces, management, etc...Do you truly believe that gibberish? Don't you think Dave Benchke was given some pretty sound reasoning why pilots can't make more? He didn't believe the bs. We all need to have some respect for our career and stop making excuses for management...

 

[J.Otto]

InstructorDude and the other person are truly ignorant. Only in the airline profession will you find goofballs even discussing what we "should" earn or what a company "can afford". Completely ridiculous. My friends in other professions such as law, medicine, etc. never would discuss they shouldn't earn more than X. As far as experience, I have friends who hired on with law firms starting at $165K with 3 years training - law school. They never went to the firm and said it's too much. Ignorant people such as these denigrate the profession. Airline pilots have significant training and responsibility comparable to other highly skilled professions, yet only we have goofballs that would suggest caps on earning or think they're qualified to suggest what we "should" earn.

i used to be employed at a white shoe law firm where they paid first year associates a comparable salary plus a year-end bonus. So they're looking at well over 200K for their first year. Great pay.

However, not only do you need excellent undrgrad grades, but only the top 5 and 10% of Ivy League law school graduates are hired. If you're not top of your class, see-ya. You're also expected to have a diverse background in academic and social accolades. Many have the pedigree and were silver spoon types. These type of large corporate firms expect a very long work week. 6-7 12+ hour days every week. Theres a lot of pressure to meet deadlines and bill heavily. Every associcate is EXPECTED to bill a a minimum amount per year.

Most of these associates are living in the firm with little social life. For those who dont have trust funds and wealthy parents, a lot this 6 figure salary goes towards paying back HUGE undergrad and law school loans.

Yeah, these places are fantastic to work at. You're catered to highly and the benefits are great. Bright smart people, very long food chain, classy and professional. Lots of marble walls, floors and niceties. But no matter how fancy and prestigious it may appear, most move one laterally within 3-4 years. As most dont make partnership (not expected), they move on to other attorney postions or leave the field altogether once they've paid off their loans.

The point is, as an attorney making on "paper" close to 200K doesn't mean this individual is happy or satisfied. Theyre away from loved ones often and have a ton of work to deal with after hours.

Trust me. Flying a CRJ, Boeing or Airbus is much more fun and rewarding than beingstuck in front of a stuffy conservative office.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I know my sis is in one of those offices and hates the hours that she put in. But she will retire at 50 the way she is going...

 

[JoeMerchant]

I know my sis is in one of those offices and hates the hours that she put in. But she will retire at 50 the way she is going...

Life's too short to work and hate the time your at work.....I set the brake for the last time on my ATR today after 14 years and 10,000 hours....and had a tear in my eye as I walked away.....I wouldn't trade those 10,000 hours for any high paying job in an office.....

We have unique problems in this industry....many of our own doing...

1. We love what we do....well most of us...

2. We can't transport our experience across company lines...I'm not going to start over again....not going to happen...I like having holidays off and lots of vacation...

3. Too easy to get the job....barriers to entry are too low! AMA and ABA understood this and made it difficult to get the credentials.....ALPA rolls over on the MPL issue.

4. We created a system where we compete with one another for flying within a brand.....no other union does that.....Doesn't make much sense....