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Shiny-Jet-Syndrome: The Career Killer

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FDJ2

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2003
Posts
3,908
Just passing this on.




Shiny-Jet-Syndrome: The Career Killer



[Enter Sally Struthers in front of a black backdrop]



Sally: "Every year hundreds of children from around the world are afflicted with a paralyzing disease. Shiny-jet-syndrome. SJS."


[Fade to daylight. Sanford Airport, Comair academy, a 19 year old CFI climbing into a Seminole with his student.]


Sally: "Thats right. Today 9 in every 10 young pilots is a victim of SJS. Take Jimmy here. Jimmy is a smart, young man. He was raised in an upper, middle-class suburb. Jimmy's dad was a Delta pilot. Jimmy has been a flight instructor here at Comair academy for 3 weeks now. See how happy he is? See how much pride Jimmy takes in his job?"


[Jimmy hears a jet engine overhead, looks up at the contrail of a jetliner passing overhead, fade to black.]


[Fade to daylight. Sanford Airport, Comair academy, summer, the 19 year old CFI climbing into a Seminole with his student.]


Sally: "It's now been six weeks since Jimmy started his new job. He has almost 60 hours of instructing under his belt. The symptoms of SJS have already begun to manifest themselves. Jimmy is a victim. He constantly complains about his lack of career progression. With a little over 500 hours total time and zero actual instrument, Jimmy had expected to be flying a regional jet by now."


[Zoom to Jimmy in the cockpit, sweat pouring from his face, his features twisted. angry, arrogant, frustrated (i/e Anakin before becoming Darth Vader) Fade to black.]


Sally: "A year later, SJS has fully taken him over. Jimmy is a regional jet co-pilot now. Let's watch..."



[Fade in on Jimmy walking through the terminal. He is wearing a uniform of sorts. He is carrying his hat, listening to his IPod, with his backpack tossed over his shoulder. His hair is frosted at the tips and he chews gum as he strolls through the terminal. He see's "RJ" - the Comair mascot up ahead, and thinks of how cool it is to fly for an airline with a big, fuzzy, talking, RJ for a mascot.]


Sally: "Jimmy looks happy now, he's an airline pilot. With less than one-thousand hours total time though, Jimmy is a burden to the Captains he flies with. His ego is enormous. He feels as though he is a modern day Ernest Gann or SkyKing but without the autopilot and flight director he is borderline dangerous. He is lazy, apathetic, and still angry. He had expected to be working for a major airline right now."


[Camera pans to Jimmy peering outside the terminal at a Boeing 737...and then, an EMB170 taxies out from behind it. A crooked smile forms on Jimmy's lips. Fade to black.]


[Fade to daylight. The cockpit of an EMB190. The year is 2010 and Jimmy is a Captain.]


Sally: "SJS has finally claimed its victim. Jimmy -- for the time being -- is happy. His airline flies an armada of narrow-body, Embraer jets that carry as many as 120 passengers. Jimmy gets paid less today than a city bus driver. He earns less than an Amtrak conductor. On average he is earning more than $100/hr LESS than the major-airline pilots he has replaced. His copilot, Sean, has been an airline pilot for about one month. He is elated to be flying a big-jet for $20,000/yr. As long as his parents continue to send those allowance checks, this could be the best job ever!"


[Camera zooms on Captain Jimmy as he sees a Boeing 757 pass by in Delta colors... Jimmy's vision blurs... he looks again and the paintjob has changed. It says "Delta Connection" now. Jimmy's mouth contorts once again to that crooked smile. Fade to black.]


[Camera fades in on Sally.]


Sally: "Do YOU know someone who is a victim of SJS? Watch for these warning signs! "
  • Do you know a CFI who has applied at Mesa or Boston/Maine?
  • Do you know a CFI who is burned out after 6 weeks of instructing?
  • Do you know a student pilot who has answered an flight school ad for "guaranteed interview with our regional airline partner"?
  • Do you know a pilot who has purchased a CRJ type-rating?
  • Do you know a regional-jet pilot who has purchase a 737 type-rating?
  • Do you know an airline pilot who has taken concessions in order to allow their company to purchase larger airplanes?
  • Do you know a pilot who believes that AirTran and Jetblue are the "majors" they've wanted to work for for "their whole lives"?
  • Do you know any member of the RJDC who STILL BELIEVES that mainline pilots are hurting their career expectations?
  • Do you know any airline pilots who refuse to dress in their uniform as specified by their SOP because "if they wanted me to dress better, they'd pay me better"?
  • Do you know any airline pilots who carry their hats for 4-days without ever putting it on their head?
  • Do you know any airline pilots who wear a backpack rather than carry adult-luggage?
  • Have you flown with copilots who say, "I cant believe they pay us to do this!!"?
  • Do you know any individual whose first "real" job involved carrying 50-90 people in the back of a jetliner?
  • Do you know any regional jet pilot who drops the "Express" or "Connection" portion of their airline name while using their profession to attempt to pick up women in a bar?
Sally: "If the answer to any of those questions was "yes" your friend might have SJS. Watch for these warning signs. SJS is a violent and dangerous disease. If left unchecked for too long the entire airline piloting profession will be NEUTERED. It is important to stop it in its tracks. Together we can reach that goal."


"Here at the Jets R' Neat Institute we are researching cures for SJS. We've developed revolutionary cures including:
  • Make minimum experience requirements to fly part 121 at LEAST as stringent as part 135 minimums -- and make it a regulation.
  • Shut down all flight schools that "guarantee" interviews.
  • Raise CFI pay so that pilots are more likely to spend time in that position.
  • Require that each part 121 candidate have at least 500 hours PIC (not instructor time) operating within the IFR system in day and night, and in all weather conditions.
  • Preference to be given to pilots who have held jobs outside of aviation.
  • Bryan Bedford and Johnathan Orenstein to be executed publically at dawn.
  • Duane Woerth will be forced to watch the execution of the above before being surprised by his own execution. He's just too stupid to be left in charge of ALPA.
Sally: "We've done a lot, but you can help. For just $246 per day you can sponser a flight instructor or regional airline pilot.


For less than the cost of a good-quality, high definition television you can sponser an aspiring airline pilot and show them what life would be like if they actually made the money that major airline pilots used to make. This is the first step in ending SJS."


[Camera fades to Jimmy's Comair Academy enrollment photo. He's shaking hands with mascot "RJ"]


Jimmy needs your help. Please send your check for $7626/month to:


The Jets R' Neat Institute for the Elimination of SJS
C/O Doctor Sven Rosenstein
Trailer #12
Happy Valley Trailer Park
Coraopolis, PA 15108"


[We now return you to your regularly scheduled episode of Spongebob]


This message has been sponsered by people on reserve with entirely too much free time!
 
Wow!! I don't know what to say, so Ill give you both versions..



1) Dude, you need to get laid !! being junior s*cks huh !

2) I agree..
 
AdSo81 said:
Just curious...I thought military guys get into jets at about 400 hours too...
More like 250 but they're much better trained...........
 
hey....... I wanted the Dash8 but I got the CRJ instead! Not everyone wants to jump right into a jet.......especially for the pay!
 
FDJ2 said:
Just passing this on.






Shiny-Jet-Syndrome: The Career Killer



[Enter Sally Struthers in front of a black backdrop]



Sally: "Every year hundreds of children from around the world are afflicted with a paralyzing disease. Shiny-jet-syndrome. SJS."


[Fade to daylight. Sanford Airport, Comair academy, a 19 year old CFI climbing into a Seminole with his student.]


Sally: "Thats right. Today 9 in every 10 young pilots is a victim of SJS. Take Jimmy here. Jimmy is a smart, young man. He was raised in an upper, middle-class suburb. Jimmy's dad was a Delta pilot. Jimmy has been a flight instructor here at Comair academy for 3 weeks now. See how happy he is? See how much pride Jimmy takes in his job?"


[Jimmy hears a jet engine overhead, looks up at the contrail of a jetliner passing overhead, fade to black.]


[Fade to daylight. Sanford Airport, Comair academy, summer, the 19 year old CFI climbing into a Seminole with his student.]


Sally: "It's now been six weeks since Jimmy started his new job. He has almost 60 hours of instructing under his belt. The symptoms of SJS have already begun to manifest themselves. Jimmy is a victim. He constantly complains about his lack of career progression. With a little over 500 hours total time and zero actual instrument, Jimmy had expected to be flying a regional jet by now."


[Zoom to Jimmy in the cockpit, sweat pouring from his face, his features twisted. angry, arrogant, frustrated (i/e Anakin before becoming Darth Vader) Fade to black.]


Sally: "A year later, SJS has fully taken him over. Jimmy is a regional jet co-pilot now. Let's watch..."



[Fade in on Jimmy walking through the terminal. He is wearing a uniform of sorts. He is carrying his hat, listening to his IPod, with his backpack tossed over his shoulder. His hair is frosted at the tips and he chews gum as he strolls through the terminal. He see's "RJ" - the Comair mascot up ahead, and thinks of how cool it is to fly for an airline with a big, fuzzy, talking, RJ for a mascot.]


Sally: "Jimmy looks happy now, he's an airline pilot. With less than one-thousand hours total time though, Jimmy is a burden to the Captains he flies with. His ego is enormous. He feels as though he is a modern day Ernest Gann or SkyKing but without the autopilot and flight director he is borderline dangerous. He is lazy, apathetic, and still angry. He had expected to be working for a major airline right now."


[Camera pans to Jimmy peering outside the terminal at a Boeing 737...and then, an EMB170 taxies out from behind it. A crooked smile forms on Jimmy's lips. Fade to black.]


[Fade to daylight. The cockpit of an EMB190. The year is 2010 and Jimmy is a Captain.]


Sally: "SJS has finally claimed its victim. Jimmy -- for the time being -- is happy. His airline flies an armada of narrow-body, Embraer jets that carry as many as 120 passengers. Jimmy gets paid less today than a city bus driver. He earns less than an Amtrak conductor. On average he is earning more than $100/hr LESS than the major-airline pilots he has replaced. His copilot, Sean, has been an airline pilot for about one month. He is elated to be flying a big-jet for $20,000/yr. As long as his parents continue to send those allowance checks, this could be the best job ever!"


[Camera zooms on Captain Jimmy as he sees a Boeing 757 pass by in Delta colors... Jimmy's vision blurs... he looks again and the paintjob has changed. It says "Delta Connection" now. Jimmy's mouth contorts once again to that crooked smile. Fade to black.]


[Camera fades in on Sally.]


Sally: "Do YOU know someone who is a victim of SJS? Watch for these warning signs! "
  • Do you know a CFI who has applied at Mesa or Boston/Maine?
  • Do you know a CFI who is burned out after 6 weeks of instructing?
  • Do you know a student pilot who has answered an flight school ad for "guaranteed interview with our regional airline partner"?
  • Do you know a pilot who has purchased a CRJ type-rating?
  • Do you know a regional-jet pilot who has purchase a 737 type-rating?
  • Do you know an airline pilot who has taken concessions in order to allow their company to purchase larger airplanes?
  • Do you know a pilot who believes that AirTran and Jetblue are the "majors" they've wanted to work for for "their whole lives"?
  • Do you know any member of the RJDC who STILL BELIEVES that mainline pilots are hurting their career expectations?
  • Do you know any airline pilots who refuse to dress in their uniform as specified by their SOP because "if they wanted me to dress better, they'd pay me better"?
  • Do you know any airline pilots who carry their hats for 4-days without ever putting it on their head?
  • Do you know any airline pilots who wear a backpack rather than carry adult-luggage?
  • Have you flown with copilots who say, "I cant believe they pay us to do this!!"?
  • Do you know any individual whose first "real" job involved carrying 50-90 people in the back of a jetliner?
  • Do you know any regional jet pilot who drops the "Express" or "Connection" portion of their airline name while using their profession to attempt to pick up women in a bar?
Sally: "If the answer to any of those questions was "yes" your friend might have SJS. Watch for these warning signs. SJS is a violent and dangerous disease. If left unchecked for too long the entire airline piloting profession will be NEUTERED. It is important to stop it in its tracks. Together we can reach that goal."


"Here at the Jets R' Neat Institute we are researching cures for SJS. We've developed revolutionary cures including:
  • Make minimum experience requirements to fly part 121 at LEAST as stringent as part 135 minimums -- and make it a regulation.
  • Shut down all flight schools that "guarantee" interviews.
  • Raise CFI pay so that pilots are more likely to spend time in that position.
  • Require that each part 121 candidate have at least 500 hours PIC (not instructor time) operating within the IFR system in day and night, and in all weather conditions.
  • Preference to be given to pilots who have held jobs outside of aviation.
  • Bryan Bedford and Johnathan Orenstein to be executed publically at dawn.
  • Duane Woerth will be forced to watch the execution of the above before being surprised by his own execution. He's just too stupid to be left in charge of ALPA.
Sally: "We've done a lot, but you can help. For just $246 per day you can sponser a flight instructor or regional airline pilot.


For less than the cost of a good-quality, high definition television you can sponser an aspiring airline pilot and show them what life would be like if they actually made the money that major airline pilots used to make. This is the first step in ending SJS."


[Camera fades to Jimmy's Comair Academy enrollment photo. He's shaking hands with mascot "RJ"]


Jimmy needs your help. Please send your check for $7626/month to:


The Jets R' Neat Institute for the Elimination of SJS
C/O Doctor Sven Rosenstein
Trailer #12
Happy Valley Trailer Park
Coraopolis, PA 15108"


[We now return you to your regularly scheduled episode of Spongebob]


This message has been sponsered by people on reserve with entirely too much free time!

Why do you people act like the "new CFI" destroyed the industry? The mainline guys destroyed it by taking concessions
 
So your saying it's my fault your management ran your airline into the ground?
 
clueless!

kngarthur said:
Why do you people act like the "new CFI" destroyed the industry? The mainline guys destroyed it by taking concessions

I can see by your lack of experience you have a LOT to learn.
737
 
O.K., in an effort to make sure the blame is properly placed here I go again... For those who do blame the CFI, I think it's prudent to remind those that the mainline unions DID goof that one up. RJ's NEVER should have been scoped out to the regionals. By doing so ALPA (and APA, etc..) essential entrusted our profession's future to the SJS infected CFI's. To use a quote from A Few Good Men, the rest of this arguement ids just, "smoke filled, coffee house crap..."
 
h25b said:
O.K., in an effort to make sure the blame is properly placed here I go again... For those who do blame the CFI, I think it's prudent to remind those that the mainline unions DID goof that one up. RJ's NEVER should have been scoped out to the regionals. By doing so ALPA (and APA, etc..) essential entrusted our profession's future to the SJS infected CFI's. To use a quote from A Few Good Men, the rest of this arguement ids just, "smoke filled, coffee house crap..."

Agreed, was it the regional pilots who "killed" the industry, or just the RJ's in general? It would be interesting to see this "SJS" if the regionals were still mostly turbo-props.
 
Hey somebody needs to throw some wax on my Jet, none I've flown are "shiny".

Maybe with the new paintjob, Ohh, I can't wait....
 
All due respect H25B -- i've never met a major airline pilot who didn't admit (and bemoan) the fact that ALPA dropped that particular ball.

Show me an airline pilot who believes that outsourcing jets was a good idea, and i'll show you a pilot who is probably real close to retirement.
 
FurloughedAgain said:
All due respect H25B -- i've never met a major airline pilot who didn't admit (and bemoan) the fact that ALPA dropped that particular ball.

Show me an airline pilot who believes that outsourcing jets was a good idea, and i'll show you a pilot who is probably real close to retirement.

I don't think we disagree... And you're right any clear thinking major airline pilot with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight should admit that screw up. As for SJS, it is a definate problem and any young regional airline pilot should realize while rooting for additional EMB-170/190's they are in fact limiting their overall career earning potential.
 
Center of Universe

Hey, FDJ2, was this your wife that posted article in Peachtree City Newspaper another day, saying that the city owes it's existence to Delta pilots and their families and now, during difficult times, all businesses should offer discounts to Delta families?

True story.
 
kngarthur said:
Why do you people act like the "new CFI" destroyed the industry? The mainline guys destroyed it by taking concessions

Because we were threatened by the growing RJ population.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
I agree 100%.

The RJs and ALPA have been the root CAUSE of SJS. It has grown due to unrealistic career expectations sold by flight schools and Kit Darby.

It is sustained by pilots who lack the patience to build experience before jumping into a high performance jet.

...but the destructive force of SJS stems from the regional-jet pilots who are willing to sacrafice their own futures, in order to acquire larger airplanes "today".

In essence, they would rather "PLAY" major airline pilot today -- then interview and BECOME a major airline pilot tomorrow.
 
It is interesting to me how so many issues nowadays are oversimplified just for the sake of creating a clear-cut binary division. Then, people take sides and the festivities begin. This issue is no where near as clear cut as it sometimes seems on this board. Like so many things, there is a chain of events that has led to the current state of the industry, and no one group or airline can be blamed completely for all of our woes.

There is also the idea of perspective. Being a younger and less experienced regional airline pilot (28 yrs old, about 4000 hours), I came into the industry after a lot of the negative stuff happened. I flight instructed for a very long time compared to most (2.5 yrs) and was furloughed from a regional after 9-11, went back to flight instructing and doing other stuff, then got on with another regional. 9/11 woke me up to the fact that this career is unstable at best. I also had my eyes opened to the fact that was I probably not going to make the "big bucks" or fly "the big jets". I have accepted that, mostly because I am not sure I ever even saw it as a possibility initially (after 9/11 at least).

So I have a different perspective. I really want to improve my QOL at my current carrier. I have plenty of money for my needs (no family...that could get hairy), but I would always like more. However, on the pay side of things, I have never experienced a life with lots of money (aka the CFI whose dad is Delta captain). My dad is a barber:). We had what I consider to be a lot of good stuff...but He never made anywhere near what a Delta captain used to make...or even makes now. I already make, after 2.5 years with a regional, about 3/4 of what my dad as ever made. Can you see how my perspective might be different? How I might be satisified with just hanging at a regional carrier, never having tasted the QOL at a major, this seems just fine:). IF I had tasted that, then gotten furloughed, I might be more frustrated, and my perspective would be different.

I am not trying to stir the pot here, nor am I trying to say one side or the other is right...I think there is more than 2 sides to this thing(as I said before). I am just trying to debunk the assumption that younger pilots in the regional airlines are all afflicted with this SJS thing. Some of us have really thought through the decisions, weighed the cost, and chosen to come aboard anyway. That should be OK.

N
 
FurloughedAgain said:
The RJs and ALPA have been the root CAUSE of SJS. It has grown due to unrealistic career expectations sold by flight schools and Kit Darby.

It is sustained by pilots who lack the patience to build experience before jumping into a high performance jet.

...but the destructive force of SJS stems from the regional-jet pilots who are willing to sacrafice their own futures, in order to acquire larger airplanes "today".

In essence, they would rather "PLAY" major airline pilot today -- then interview and BECOME a major airline pilot tomorrow.

Please don't jump down my throat here, because I am trying to present a legitimate concern. The up-and-coming CFIs are being accused of having SJS, but from where I sit, there doesn't appear to be anything that we can do to change the problem. Seriously, look at a CFI's options--a regional is willing to hire us at 1000/100. What are we supposed to do? Turn it down? Freight dog instead because it's more "honorable?" Forget about flying and head to the restaurant biz? I don't see the point of making career progression harder than it has to be. Everyone seems to be long on bitching and short on ideas to fix the problem.

Or is this just about the E170/E190?

Personally, I haven't decided exactly what my career goals in flying are, and that is simply because I don't know what opportunities will be available to me when I gain the proper amount of experience. I'm not bent on flying for an regional airline, but I see that as a viable option--an option that will keep me doing something for a living that I enjoy. What is so wrong about that anyway?

Goose,
Insolent Youngster,
SJS Poster Child
 
Last edited:
Ok Goose.

Lets assume for a moment that your only choice is to go work for a large jet-regional.

You go to work there and, after a few years growth begins to slow. It looks like it might be more than the advertised "5 years" to upgrade. It may be closer to ten. Its tough to say. With no growth and little attrition there is no way to project upgrade time.

You're going to be an F/O for a long time. Suddenly your dream of flying a 737 for Southwest or a 777 for United seems a long way away.

Then, one day, management comes by and says "If you guys would take a pay cut, we could get some Embraer 190s."

You know that your major airline partner's scope will not PERMIT the outsourcing of E190s, but your management is convinced that they have it handled.

What do you do?

A. $crew those guys! I need to get my 1000 pic turbine so I can go to SWA.
B. Man, that E190 is just as good as a 737! I can upgrade soon and be living the dream!
C. I am willing to give up some pay - after all, when I upgrade i'll make more money and it'll all even out in the end.
D. I sure dont want to do anything that weakens or violates the intent of another airline's collective bargaining agreement.
 
Is SJS contagious?
...I think I may have contracted it.

Unfortunately, it may very well be an epidemic among young, low-time pilots such as myself. All the reasons are there but there is very little that an individual can do to sway the influence of the so-called "invisible hand" that guides this or any other industry. It is governed by the principles of economics and human behavior. Both fairly predictable and programmable to a high degree.

Great post though.
 
I choose (A) bender....then I go to SWA and sit as an F/O until retirement junior to some Mesa pilot who took a faster upgrade!
 
BenderGonzales said:
What do you do?

A. $crew those guys! I need to get my 1000 pic turbine so I can go to SWA.
B. Man, that E190 is just as good as a 737! I can upgrade soon and be living the dream!
C. I am willing to give up some pay - after all, when I upgrade i'll make more money and it'll all even out in the end.
D. I sure dont want to do anything that weakens or violates the intent of another airline's collective bargaining agreement.

No, I hear ya, Bender. What I'm saying is that I don't see how all this is the CFI's or new-hire FO's fault.

But since you asked...

A. If I had a 1000 PIC turbine, I'd be looking for a good corporate job. Screw SWA.
B. An airplane is an airplane, but what's the "dream?"
C. Do you really have a choice here?
D. I don't think it would be right, but again, what recourse do you have? Seems like management would be just as much to blame (or more) as any pilot group.

-Goose
 
Last edited:
Isn't this the Delta Union's fault for not wanting "those dinky little jets" on their property? If the CRJ had not gotten out the door would this be an issue?
 
LegacyDriver said:
Isn't this the Delta Union's fault for not wanting "those dinky little jets" on their property? If the CRJ had not gotten out the door would this be an issue?

Maybe...but you have to realize nobody could forsee managements hard-on for these jets and I'm sure nobody fathomed the idea that major airlines would use RJs from ATL to JFK or IAH or DFW, etc. Everyone thought the RJs would replace turboprop flying, not mainline flying. Hindsight is always 20-20.
 
LegacyDriver said:
Isn't this the Delta Union's fault for not wanting "those dinky little jets" on their property?

Yeah we didn't want 32% of our pay, our pensions, work rules or the Delta pilot medical plan either. You nailed it ace.:rolleyes:
 

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