Shares Pilots taking overtime with 100 on the street

[Sparse]

I'll bet that most of the people complaining on this thread aren't even CS pilots. I havn't heard any of this talk on the line.

FWIW I havnt had a day of OT, voluntary or otherwise, in a long, long time. And anyone who tries to slit my tires, just know that survivors will be prosecuted.

The ones who are complaining are the ones who are affected. If you are still a Captain, nothing has changed. If you are a FO that hasn't been furloughed, nothing has changed either. If you fly with a Captain that is about to be downgraded, or an FO that is about to be furloughed I bet you will hear something about those working voluntary OT.

 

[blueridge71]

I've run into quite a few affected and havn't heard a peep. Maybe they realize that OT is not going to make a difference in the long run.

The future of the company and the industry, at least in the near term, hinges on whether the government continues forward with anti-growth and anti-business policies. All you who voted for Obama are more to blame for the furloughs than someone who volunteers for OT.

I'd wager that if anyone is putting in for OT, it is probably downgraded captains trying to make up their income or soon-to-be furloughed FOs trying up get a little more money in their bank account.

I havn't been affected here, but I have been furloughed inthe past.

 

[glasspilot]

So those of us who vote but fail to vote like you are to blame? Nevermind the MILLIONS of people who fail to vote altogether...it's our fault.

I have a better idea, how about you blame Bush for being such an inept President that nobody in their right mind could take a chance on another GOP nut job. I'm happy with my choice, don't dare tell me how to vote and don't blame me for an economic collapse that is the direct result of the former President.

 

[Freedom]

Alert: Thread Hijack Attempt

Go ahead and help him deflect this thread into a Political discussion.

The Real Issue is you have got Citation Shares Pilots doing Voluntary Overtime when their fellow Pilots are on the Street.

Carry on.....

 

[UAL-GSO]

Some still haven't learned this simple lesson yet, only pilots look out for pilots.

Problem is - they don't

 

[blueridge71]

Now I remember why I stopped wasting time on this board.

Okay, can anyone explain to me why - IF anyone is doing so - it helps furloughed pilots to have people forced into OT rather than having someone who wants and/or needs it volunteer for it? My point is that the company is going to cover the flight with their own crews one way or another.

Glasspilot, I'll ignore all the other facts about the working man's party and how they protected Fannie and Freddie and created a market for subprime loans that caused this whole mess to say this:

If you voted for Obama, it was your man who directly attacked and demonized corporate aviation and cost countless pilot jobs. Don't you think that some of the pain in this industry is because a lot of people and corporations took the lesson of the auto execs to heart?

 

[glasspilot]

This thread is hijacked and it's you who did it by blaming me directly for furloughed pilots. That is BS and you know it. My vote, just like my God, is MY business. You have no right to tie it to fellow pilots losing their jobs!

As to working OT, ya'll hash it out. That's what this thread is about.

 

[blueridge71]

I did no such thing. The economy is directly related to elections and the furloughs are related directly to the economy. If you can't understand that, then your naivete' is, well, astounding. Especially when the winning candidate directly attacks the industry in question.

I had no idea who you voted for and couldn't really care less. I stand by the statement that voters who put Obama in office - not to mention Chris Dodd, Barney Franks, et al - are responsible for much of th current state of affairs. Definitely more so than any pilot who picks up OT. If we had a government who didn't feel the need to attack business, a lot of these guys probably wouldn't be on the street at all.

I've posed a simple question several times and it has been repeatedly ignored by people who attack me. I ask again:

Okay, can anyone explain to me why - IF anyone is doing so - it helps furloughed pilots to have people forced into OT rather than having someone who wants and/or needs it volunteer for it? My point is that the company is going to cover the flight with their own crews one way or another.

 

[Sparse]

Problem is - they don't

Amen. Years ago an old Captain at my last job told me, "son, you need a contract for two reasons. One to protect you from the company, and two to protect you from each other."

 

[glasspilot]

There you go again! "Those that voted for whos in office are to blame".

No, Those that wasted Americas treasure on stupid wars are to blame. Those that time and time again eased corporate oversight are to blame. Those that seek to help big corporate donations to campaign funds by relaxing regulation are to blame. Those that manipulate the public with constant fear mongering to get to their political goals are to blame. Those people are predominatly the former administration and the current GOP.

I still blame them as opposed to the people who voted for them. If you don't see that then I'd say YOU are naive.

By the way, I am not the only person who feels this way...notice how a MAJORITY of the US voted the same as me.

 

[RCA]

If we have a system by the people for the people, I'd say it's always the peoples fault(good or bad). If the people at the top are to blame for the failure or success of this country we've drifted of course.

 

[blueridge71]

Glasspilot,
Those people in office wouldn't have a chance to ease oversight on companies like Fnnie Mae and Freddie Mac if people didn't keep re-electing them because they bring home the pork. Obama got elected on a very different agenda from what he has pursued in office and his popularity shows it.

Regardless, I'm done wasting time with you.
1. I reject your premise. I've seen no evidence of any CS pilots taking OT because no one I talk to is getting any at all. The sole exception is one guy I fly with who keeps getting home late and does not volunteer.

2. I do no concede the point. You have pointedly ignored my requests to explain why you believe that having pilots volunteer for OT instead of having the company force other pilots into it is a bad thing for furloughees. The trips are going to be covered one way or another. Is it somehow more pure to get OT when you don't want or need it?

I realize that this an emotional issue, but try to look at it logically. The best thing that anyone can do for furloughees is to keep the company strong so that we can start to grow again and recall them.

3. I recommend that you look at your beliefs and check them against the real world. If your beliefs don't make sense in light of real events, then you should alter your preconceptions, not your reality.

Peace be upon your head. I've wasted enough time here and I'm done.

 

[glasspilot]

I love it when guys try to storm out in a huff with a long post and ending "I'm done". It's the equivelent of ending an argument by slamming the door. Very childish.

Anyway, two points:

1. I've not ignored your request to explain OT. I've not given support one way or the other. I've just been saying all along that I object to you blaming me (as a voter) for furloughs at any fractional. It's BS and you know it.

2. My beliefs are just that...mine. They are checked against reality. I suggest you take your advice.

 

[netjetwife]

.... This is about principle ... Absolutely! Some still haven't learned this simple lesson yet, only pilots look out for pilots. Common sense tells us-- there is no one better suited to represent your interests than members from your own group. When one or a few choose to line their on pockets with a few dollars while others struggle to pay their bills on unemployment comp, we all lose. Hear! Hear! Pro union or not, sometime, somehwere in this goffed up world, principle should trump all other factors. In our industry, this is near the top of the list. Well said! ....

Further if nobody took overtime, I'm quite sure there would be several pilots PER FLEET that would get their jobs back or re-upgrade.

"The only way we will get everyone back is to pull together."...,

Dash 8, this is an excellent post that is well worth repeating and emphasizing. (I put it in bold type). I hope the intended audience will heed your wise words. Good luck to all furloughed pilots and their families! NJW

 

[cougar12]

Not a tempt to Hi-jack the thread. FLOPS has the same problem! We have individuals doing as much as 4 days a tour of overtime per tour in certain fleets. The excuses are just BS (trying to pay down my debt) How about a furlouged pilot losing his home! or his marriage falling apart due to finances!
I luckily survived the cuts. It is appaulling that pilots are so selfish and just don't understand we all need to stick together NO OVERTIME!!!!!!