set a record..

[Semore Butts]

We wish we could

We flew daily light into New Orleans after Katrina.

We weren't flyng civilians.

We were hauling 4rth ID troops to and from the area.

Alot of troops were injured helping in that disaster.

The sad thing is, they were TDY several weeks doing
that. Upon return to Ft. Hood they shipped out for Iraq.

I ask for answers from AV8TOR? I guess he must have thought about it and couldn't really come up with any?

Thanks for all the support from those of you that have served and know.

I meant no offense to AV8TOR.

For those of you that don't believe in the global situation we are in, ya better start looking past the fence in your back yard.

You got a hell of a lot bigger problems then some military guys trying to get a good deal out of a training flight.

Here's one for you. Why don't we have a draft to build up the military?

The answer given to me by a person many echelons above me?

How are we gonna draft the woman?

The "Do your own thing", "If it feels good do it" generation that I grew up in are seeing the result of the generation we have raised.

Wow! It gets complex don't it?

What are you gonna do when your cute little 18 year old daughter or grandaughter comes home and says "Daddy, I've been drafted".

It's because Semore got yelled at for going to get BBQ on a training flight, so he got out!

Ya better come up with something, because alot of us are running out of "school spirit" over the way we are being treated.

I could go on and on and on. But it's Saturday and I actually have the day off. (Can't fly anyway my crew endurance is maxed out)

 

[Semore Butts]

By the way

I agree, this argument can go on and on.

"Ahm pretty tired, I think I'll just go home". (Forest Gump)

I'm done. Semore

 

[7777]

You make a very interesting point Semore. My father was military (6 years Navy on the USS Wasp 1958 to 1964), one of my brothers was a Army Ranger for 8 years (1983 to 1991) and then I have been career Army.

My point is, it seems familys that have a history of serving our country tend to have that trend continue throughout the family. I have alot of friends that have the same scenario.

When these familys can or won't continue this service due to whatever reason, then what? I HATED Senator Kerrys comment several years ago about military members serving their country because that is all they were able to do. I came into the military with a BA from a private school. I recieved my graduate degree after several years in the military. I serve because I LOVE it and feel the need to be one of the guys to help keep our country great.

I have been considering retirement. It has been one of the hardest decisions I have ever had to make. Some days I feel I am leaving my friends to fight this war alone, but other days I feel I have done my part and it is time to move on and make way for others. Then your very real comment about 'Who is going to carry on the fight.' makes me want to reconsider again.

People like Av8tor have no idea. Absolutely none. They are CNN warriors. The smart ones with the same views know to keep their mouths shut. They have the knowledge that this country did not achieve its status without the sacrifice of many good men and women who cared and were willing to do something about it. They have that idealistic mentality that most liberals hate so much.

I hope you enjoyed your BBQ. Someday you and I will have to meet up in Topeka for some $1 BBQ. I have been there as well.

Stay strong and keep the faith. We will win this one with or without 'their' support.

 

[Helmsalee]

Semore,

I too fought in an unpopular war (over 30 years ago now). One of the things that has improved since then is the treatment of our soldiers. The American people (most of them, liberal and conservative) appreciate what you and the others are doing. It would be a terrible thing if the more vocal and extreme left were able to turn a significant part of the public against the military.

Hope your friend's interview went well. If we run into each other, the first one is on me.

Lew

 

[av8tor4239]

People like Av8tor have no idea. Absolutely none. They are CNN warriors. The smart ones with the same views know to keep their mouths shut. They have the knowledge that this country did not achieve its status without the sacrifice of many good men and women who cared and were willing to do something about it. They have that idealistic mentality that most liberals hate so much.

I feel like a one legged man at an ass kicking contest... I am in a boxing match without a corner.... I cant stand it anymore....

First of all my grandfather was 5th marine on the beaches of IWO JIMA, my other grandfather served on the front lines of the German front.. My father was drafted into vietnam, and I CHOSE not to join the military.....

I love our country, and as I have said over and over again in this thread.. I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS.... I DO NOT SUPPORT THE LEADERSHIP THAT SENDS OUR TROOPS TO DO WHAT THEY DO... I DO NOT SUPPORT THE " NO MISSION JUST SCREWING AROUND" THAT THIS WHOLE THREAD TURNED INTO.

Secondly, I am not a CNN warrior.... It seems that everytime someone broadcast a view that does not agree with your "Conservative kill em all" attitude you use the defense: You have not been there so you dont know.... EVERYONE KNOWS, WHETHER YOU HAVE BEEN THERE OR NOT.. EVERYONE KNOWS...
There is alot of good humanitarian sh!t going on over there in Iraq, but there is also alot of bad Sh!t going on over ther in Iraq.. you dont have to go over there to know this....

Please explain to me why I have "no idea, none"?

the smart ones with the same views know to keep their mouths shut

It is this exact mentality that so many good american men and women fought AGAINST and died fighting AGAINST THIS MENTALITY

So tell me 777 oh military guru and supream patriot... Why did we go to Iraq? Was it:

a) to defend the USA from the imaginary WMD's
b) to rid the world of evil doers
c) to spread democracy to the people of Iraq at the cost of 4000+ american lives
d) revenge for the attempt on Bush SR. life
e) for the carlyle groups bottom line http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html
f) all of the above
g) none of the above

The reasons that the Iraq war was sold to the american people are different that the reasons we are there now. It does not take a genious to figure that out, nor does one have to visit the middle east to figure that one out.

You do not have an Idealistic outlook, you have a one track mind, monkey see monkey do attitude....

You and all your military buddies will most likely respond to this the same way you have throuout the entire thread by calling me names and boosting your egos by telling each other how wonderful you all are for going to Iraq and blowing sh!t up.

If it wasnt for viewpoints like mine our country would not be what it is today.... we would all be the big kid in the sand box throwing sand at the little kids..

 

[7777]

EVERYONE KNOWS, WHETHER YOU HAVE BEEN THERE OR NOT.. EVERYONE KNOWS...

You know what the media WANTS you to know. You do have to go there to know the truth.

Lets review a bit of history. When I went over they were saying we needed to bring alot of body bags because the WMD's and chemical wepaons were going to be used by Sadaam to kill alot of people. Everyone knew this, just like you said.

Everyone knew the people of Iraq and Kuwait hated the Americans and wanted us out of there. Yet everyone I spoke to was extremely positive and wanted to know what was taking so long to go into Iraq. It was headline news on the front page of the main Kuwait City newspaper. You did see alot of staged protests though. CNN made sure you saw those.

They also said Sadaam didn't have missles that could travel further than the UN mandated restriction placed on him....everyone knew that. He shot several at us well outside this range. One of these attacks was documented on a discovery show that covered the war as well as by myself and many others that he shot them at.

Sadaam didn't wipe out villages of people with chemical weapons during his reign...everyone knew this until we uncovered the mass graves of these people.

Everyone knew Sadaam didn't have aircraft that were restricted under the UN mandate that 'controlled' him until we unearthed several aircraft that were buried in the desert.

Sadaam didn't have UAV's either. Everyone knew that until he flew a couple over our camp one day in December and January 02/03...I was there.

How long do you want me to go? How big does this list have to get to show you didn't know what you think you did?

Your problem is you can't see through your politics av8tor. You and those with your views don't want anything but the worst in Iraq. Just so you can say 'I told you so.'

So when you make comments like,

You dont have to go over there to know this....

you don't look like you know anything.

Please explain to me why I have "no idea, none"?

I just did. You have proven this over and over again in this thread. You wrongly stated what it took to maintain currency in the military for starters and stated it as fact if I am not mistaken. It went downhill from there.

Read this thread again and answer any of the questions posed to you from Semore about his training program....you know...right? I could explain it in detail to you because I do know. This is what bothers me about statements made by you. You really have know clue but you act like you do. You know what the media wants you to know on the War on Terror and absolutely nothing about military training, and then you go strut like you are some expert....it is laughable really.

It is this exact mentality that so many good american men and women fought AGAINST and died fighting AGAINST THIS MENTALITY

It is about reporting the truth. When I came back I was asked by an elderly couple what I experienced. I told them, and I mentioned we were making progress. As they walked away, I heard the old lady ask the old man 'Do you believe him?', 'Nope' was his reply. I just laughed. CNN warriors...just like you. You all know.

The reasons that the Iraq war was sold to the american people are different that the reasons we are there now. It does not take a genious to figure that out, nor does one have to visit the middle east to figure that one out.

That is true. Why is that? How did that happen?

If it wasnt for viewpoints like mine our country would not be what it is today....

That is very true. It is also the reason why the major media outlets are tanking so bad in the ratings(ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN). They feed their sheep. Then the sheep spread the word and look foolish when the truth comes out. Few can believe them anymore.

I didn't call you anything but a sheep. That is pretty good huh?

 

[av8tor4239]

You keep blaming the media, maybe you should look at yourself...

You dont know me and you dont know where I get my information.. CNN is not the only place on earth that reports on your war...

sounds like you have a grudge with the media.. maybe that is the root of your anger:uzi:

 

[JungleJett]

I could say that flying for FLOPS sucks...at least that is what I was told. But I DO NOT know because I dont fly for them. Being on the inside...gives you more street credit than cable news..I am sorry but that is the simple truth. What the news reports and what is happening is often 180 out.

While I may not totally agree with our participation in this conflict or its reason for its beginning, I support our efforts there now. We need to finish what we started. Whining about WHY we are there and the lies that may have been told is really wasted energy and wasted oxygen use. It is the epitome of crying over spilled milk. It is DONE and we are THERE now...lets spend the energy on working the problem out instead of bitching about who started what and why. Seriously, when I hear the candidates talk about it or the news go on and on about it, it makes me want to scream! How about we talk about when the war is over...we are wasting time and resources looking for someone to blame. Those that take part in it are NOT supporting our troops. They do not have the time do so....and to call for the immediate withdraw of all US forces would lead to a wholesale slaughter of innocent Iraqis and the deaths of thousands of US forces. If you had ANY military knowledge, this would be clear. Let the commanders do what they do...and the rest of us can sit home and bitch about the cost of unleaded gas.

I HAVE been there and there is no way in hell I would claim to know the situation on the ground. I would not be that arrogant. My view was blurred by the heat and dust in the skies over Iraq. Those with boots on the ground are my heroes...they know the truth. The truth is not always what CNN has to say between moments in the latest Britney Spears news.

 

[7777]

You keep blaming the media, maybe you should look at yourself...

Why should I look at myself?

You dont know me and you dont know where I get my information.. CNN is not the only place on earth that reports on your war...

You are right, I don't know you but I know of you. I suspect the Onion, LA Times, NY Times, ect. are other sources of your information?

As Americans, isn't it our war? Our countrys troops are fighting in it and you said you support the troops. Was that a lie? You are an American aren't you?

sounds like you have a grudge with the media.. maybe that is the root of your anger:uzi:

You think? I don't trust the media anymore than I trust getting military information or information on the War on Terror from you.

My angst for the media would change if they operated the way they are supposed to do and report the truth (good and bad).

As for you? Keep walking towards the light and I will get you out.

 

[Wankel7]

83 hours since 2/28. Yikes!

 

[Semore Butts]

Well I'll be an SOB?

Av8tor!

You did it again??????

" NO MISSION JUST SCREWING AROUND".

What is this? Like the 3rd or 4rth time I told you that statement wasn't accurate?

My God man, can't you let that statement go? (isn't there a political party that does that same sh!t?)

You have used that against me over and over and over. I have said we arent screwing around we are flying mission profiles, hand flying all approaches, and flying the ones in VMC on the Meggit. We have to plan the flight, research the fuel availability, request the weather, check the crew endurance, evaluate the weather, do a performance planning card, preflight and postflight brief. A zillion touch and goes, slow flight, steep turns, engine outs, single engine go-arounds. We have to vary to get more training. I did manage to train, evaluate and certify a new Instructor Pilot while I was at it.

We have not squandered the blessing we have had of being able to train as we see fit with our flying hour program.

I tried to be done with this post, but sheesh?

I have tried not to catagorize you, but whew!

Some people can get away with "I did not have sex with that woman" or "that depends on what is, is" (not exact qoutes). But I make one off handed remark and you won't let it die.

They behead our troops, we stack them up naked and a 3 star general loses his career over it, and we are all bad people for the act of an incredibly few.

Your like the energizer bunny with that screwing around remark.

We weren't screwing around and there weren't any WMD's in Iraq.

There we are on the same side now right?

I have said this before. You can talk until you are blue in the face about the mid-east theatres. But if you have not been there, you just won't get it. Leave political views and skewed media or whatever argument you want to use, "it is what it is".

We are there now, the big "take over the world plot" is exposed. There way of life or ours, pick one. That is as simple as I can make it.

 

[hydrarkt]

AV8TOR will never change his mind. He thinks he knows more than he does. His sole knowledge of the military comes from the brave service of his grandfathers. Unfortunately he gains from their sacrifice but none of his own. He doesn't understand that those who have been there and done that will have a greater understanding than he does. A high school kid can read all he wants about flying and think he knows how to fly. But until he gets into an aircraft, he doesn't really know, does he?
A few people here have already explained about training requirements and flight hour programs. But he still doesn't understand. He choses to ignore realistic explanations and fall back on his uninformed opinions.
He also knows little about history because his opinions cloud the facts.
It's difficult to argue with people who ignore the facts and believe their own ideology instead. I actually recently dated a lady who thought that if she could have just talked to Hitler and Stalin, she could have changed their minds about genocide. AV8TOR strikes me as the same type of person. It's no use explaining anything or relaying real life experience to him because it falls on deaf ears.

 

[av8tor4239]

I am trying to let this thread die, but I keep getting called names etc.. I will not stand for it..

hydrarkt... I love how from about 10-15 post you have me all summed up, enough to conclude that I in the same boat as your bizzar girlfriend.

it is difficult to argue with people who ignore the facts and believe their own ideology instead

First of all what facts am I ignoring?
Second, the point is not to argue, the point is to agree or disagree... argument is reserved for children
Third and most importantly is that you are contradicting yourself by believing your own ideology and ignoring the facts.. you have a very brainwashed view of the state of the world.

he does not understand that those that have been there have a greater understanding than he does.

I do understand that those that have been to Iraq understand the people and the culture. But that has nothing to do with the motivation of the highest levels of government for being their in the first place. I feel like a broken record:
One does not need to visit Iraq to understand what our leaders have gotten us into.

PLEASE LET THIS THREAD DIE...

WE AGREE TO DISAGREE.. TAKE YOUR OPINION TO THE POLES IN NOV...

 

[transpac]

Before the thread dies, I have a comment. The scenario Semore described back at the beginning is carried out daily by all branches of the US Government. And, lets call it what it is: A tremendous waste of taxpayer money. It contributes nothing to the war effort and plays no role in preventing our grandchildren from having to speak Mandarin. The problem is that if Semore's unit doesn't spend all the money allocated to them there will be hell to pay for mismanagement and their budget will be cut the next fiscal year. Spend all the allocated money and everyone is happy and next years budget might even contain a little extra flying money. I've wasted more taxpayer money than most, in and out of uniform.