Sense for those who have ears to hear

[Typhoon1244]

When you refer to me as 'loony', I must say that it only assures me that I am on the right track.

You are indeed on the right track. If your goal is a shattered economy, and a dead ecosphere, and an isolated America, then you're exactly on target. Drive on.

 

[Timebuilder]

(shakes head, smiling...)

 

[Typhoon1244]

(shakes head, smiling...)

(I saw that...)

 

[Pilot124]

All the Liberals are right. Lets just sit back and do nothing. He!! if we had done that before with Europe we would be speaking German. Just think how fun it would be to speak Deutch!! So lets sick back and watch it unfold. GWB is the only one that has the BALL$ to stand up! Image on Sept 11 if Gore was President! Now that is just plain scary. WAY TO GO GWB.

 

[Herman Bloom]

! Image on Sept 11 if Gore was President! Now that is just plain scary.

You are the smartest man alive.

Yeah, I suppose those buildings would've come down harder and faster if Gore had been president. Statistically, a majority of those people who died that day voted for Gore in November. All things being equal, that is. Please think about that before you disgrace their memory.

I'll bet you are very smart.

 

[TonyC]

Statistically, a majority of those people who died that day voted for Gore in November.

I'd like to see how you came up with that statistic. No use even dealing with the preposterous statement that followed unless you can substantiate the "statistic."

 

[KigAir]

Reading this thread is making me hungry for some BBQ.

 

[Timebuilder]

You are the smartest man alive.

Yeah, I suppose those buildings would've come down harder and faster if Gore had been president. Statistically, a majority of those people who died that day voted for Gore in November. All things being equal, that is. Please think about that before you disgrace their memory.

I'll bet you are very smart.

Perhaps he is making reference to what would have been done or not done were Al elected.

And I too would like to have a look at that statistic, since the media always paints business as being a republican animal, and generally, "bad" people. You know, those constant references to Enron, Tyco, etc? I have no doubt there would be democrats, but a majority?

I wonder if such a database of employee political affiliation exists. Sounds illegal.

 

[Herman Bloom]

Point is very simple: A majority of voters cast their votes for Al Gore in 2000. Now before you get em all up in a bunch, let me just say that I'm NOT implying that Gore is the rightful president of the US...W won, fair and square. But the fact remains: most Americans voted for Gore. One of only (two?) times in the history of our country that this has happened.

I mean really, who isn't sick of hearing that "thank God Gore wasn't president" mess? It's not smart.

 

[Timebuilder]

I think the reason you hear that is because of the adversarial relationship that many democrats have developed with the military, the issue of American sovereignty, and intelligence gathering community. To many people, we have the right man in place, out of the choices that were available.

Now statistically, NYC was a cluster area of Gore support. It may not be true, however, that former Gore supporters were the majority of those killed on 9-11. All I'm saying is that such an idea is a stretch for me.

 

[TonyC]

Point is very simple: A majority of voters cast their votes for Al Gore in 2000.

Using your logic, my wife and I must have voted for Gore, too, since more than half of any sample of people voted for Gore.

Also, using your logic, the majority of the persons who were aboard United Airlines Flight 93 that day voted for Perot, because they landed in Shanksville Pennsylvania, and that area voted for Perot. (Don't go looking that up - - I just fabricated it.)

Now, let's take a closer look. If every person that died during the 911 attacks had voted in an area that voted for Gore, then your assertion might be superficially sound. Since you've made no attempt to assert such a condition, allow me to poke a few holes.

Many persons who died in the attacks were not US citizens. As such, they should not have voted for Gore OR Bush. (Notice I said SHOULD - - I can't prove that they DID not.)

Many persons who died in the attacks were not yet of voting age.

Many persons who ARE citizens of the US and ARE of voting age do not register to vote. It's likely that this describes some of the persons who died in the attacks.

Many persons who are registered to vote did NOT vote in the general election that decided the President of the United States. It's likely that this describes some of the persons who died in the attacks.

Many persons who died in the attacks were traveling by airplane, and possibly lived and voted in regions of the country that voted predominantly Republican.

We could probably identify each victim and pinpoint his/her eligibility to vote, his/her voting status, and the voting record of the precinct in which he/she voted in order to develop a REAL statistical probability. We might even further refine it by studying the socioeconomic status, career choice, and religious preference of each victim or by interviewing family or friends to gain better insights. I feel fairly confident, though, that when it comes down to it, you'll not develop a meaningful statistic that bears out your assertion that "a majority of those people who died that day voted for Gore in November."

It would be safer to say that a majority of those people did NOT vote for Gore. It would be equally safe to say that a majority of those people did NOT vote for Bush, either. In fact, I think it would be statistically safe to say that a majority of those people did NOT vote AT ALL!

Having said that, then, you can see how preposterous is your assertion that suggesting that the thought of Al Gore as President on the day of those dreadful attacks is scary somehow disgraces the memory of those who were lost.

But the fact remains: most Americans voted for Gore.

You didn't do too well on your statistic, and you have failed on your fact. The FACT is most Americans, even if you exclude those not of voting age, did NOT vote at all.

I mean really, who isn't sick of hearing that "thank God Gore wasn't president" mess? It's not smart.

I'm not sick of it. I saw how Clinton handled similar events. He took the moral high road, even evoked the blessings of God, reminded us of how we will prevail because God is on our side - - and then did next to nothing. I expect Gore would have done much the same. I expect we'd be living in fear and counting the loss of lives in several subsequent attacks on our homeland. We'd be weak and cowardly, and the world would sit up and take notice of the strength and power of the America-haters that enjoy refuge in places like Afghanistan, Libya, Iran, and Iraq. Oh yeah, we'd be paying $12 dollars a gallon for gas and be getting lectures from President Gore about how we must save our planet by riding our bicycles to save oil and using our toilet paper twice to save trees. He'd make us feel guilty for our success and wealth, and blame US for the attacks we suffered. Oh yeah, I'm sick of hearing that alright.

You can have your brand of smart, thank you.

 

[Herman Bloom]

I'll concede that...I was just trying to draw the connection in order to make a point.

 

[TonyC]

I'll concede that...I was just trying to draw the connection in order to make a point.

I appreciate your honesty.





Some people examine the facts before taking a position.

Other people take a position first, and then find themselves twisting facts to support it.

I find the former course of action to be more intellectually honest - - and simpler.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Using your logic, my wife and I must have voted for Gore, too, since more than half of any sample of people voted for Gore.

A poor example, since two people--particularly a married couple--are not statistically significant in a population of 292,985,739. (See www.census.gov.)

(Just for grins, Tony, you and your wife are one 6.8262708172290938706747088464944e-9th of the U.S. population. )

I saw how Clinton handled similar events. He took the moral high road, even evoked the blessings of God, reminded us of how we will prevail because God is on our side - - and then did next to nothing. I expect Gore would have done much the same.

I believe that idea has very little merit. No U.S. president--Republican, Democrat, or independent--would have stayed in office long if he hadn't taken decisive military action shortly after September 11th. Enduring Freedom would probably have preogressed similarly regardless of who was in the White House. The difference is that if we had a president who wasn't an oil tycoon, we might have bin Laden in custody now instead of Saddam.

 

[Pilot124]

Herman Bloom
I appreciate your feedback after all it is a free country. I was refering to post 9-11 reaction from our president, and how he handled it. I liked the the way our President with only 7 months in office reacted to an unthinkable act. Americans were mad and you can tell he was too. The polls showed the majority of America liked the way he handled it as well. But please don't insinuate(sorry about the spelling) that I discraced thier memories. To say that is completely iresponsible and disrespectful. I was just saying that I was just glad that GWB was the comander in chief after that horrible day and Not Gore. 3000 people died that day REGARDLESS who they voted for or their political affiliation. It was the saddest day in American history. Agree or disagree but don't assert things that are very sensitive to me as am AMERICAN!!!!!!Thank You

 

[Typhoon1244]

Chicks dig Pilots!!!!!!

Boy, if you believe that's still true, you are defective!

 

[Pilot124]

I was thinking about changing that for a while. You are right they can care less. I think I will change that tonight. Thanks

 

[Typhoon1244]

I think I will change that tonight.

The funny thing is that when I first glanced at it, I thought it said "chicks pig pilots," and I thought, what the fcuk does that mean?

(A suggestion: go to www.imdb.com and find your favorite movie quotes.)

 

[Pilot124]

I just changed it to those 3 dreaded words!

 

[Typhoon1244]

Call crew scheduling!

Aaaaaarrrgghhhhh!

(Nose bleeding, vision blurring...)

 

[TonyC]

I believe that idea has very little merit. No U.S. president--Republican, Democrat, or independent--would have stayed in office long if he hadn't taken decisive military action shortly after September 11th. Enduring Freedom would probably have preogressed similarly regardless of who was in the White House. The difference is that if we had a president who wasn't an oil tycoon, we might have bin Laden in custody now instead of Saddam.

Yea, oil tycoon. Riiiiight.

You can believe Gore would have acted in such a way if you like. We can all look at the track record of Clinton and draw logical conclusions, too. How many times did he say (paraphrase here) "We'll get 'em" and how many times did he get 'em? Sure, we might have fired a few cruise missiles from choice safe locations, but do you really think he had the stomach to risk American's lives? Do you really think there would have BEEN an Enduring Freedom? I don't. There's no absolute way for us to determine what would have been, but we are entitled to our opinions.

I'd like to hear from some of our troops in Afghanistan right now and see if THEY feel like they've given up on the quest to find Bin Laden. More importantly, I'd like to know if you feel like capturing Bin Laden would spell the end of the war against terror. Do you think all our troops could just pack up and come home the minute he's found?

 

[Typhoon1244]

Your link is kinda broken...

I noticed. It's fixed.

...I'd like to know if you feel like capturing Bin Laden would spell the end of the war against terror.

No, of course not...but I would feel that the 9/11 victims would be somewhat more appropriately avenged.

I also believe it would be a huge psychological victory against al Qaeda.

Do you think all our troops could just pack up and come home the minute he's found?

[sigh] No, Tony, of course not. Having bin Laden in custody is going to make the world a very dangerous place for Americans for a while. We're going to need troops everywhere.

If history is any gauge, regardless of who's in the White House, the conflict between us and the terrorists who oppose us will not end until all of either group is eliminated...unless human nature drastically changes.

And I don't see that happening any time soon.

(Note to those of you who would stick the "liberal" label on me: I believe in profiling, I believe in the extermination of organized terrorism, and I believe in a very large, modern U.S. military. Still sound like a liberal?)