Senate hearing re Regional airlines

[WWEfan]

I agree. And no special favors for the military guys, you need to go build time else where if you're coming out of the military with only 500-1000 hours.

Word. I'm not sure how military pilots ever got to be so "special" in the eyes of the majors. I've flown with good ones and bad ones. I just haven't seen anything to really differentiate them from civilian trained pilots.

Maybe they are just being rewarded for their service from patriotic members of airline managements?

 

[Papa Woody]

Colgan VP-Flight Operations Harry Mitchel told board members. "We hire professionals. They should show up fresh and ready to fly that aircraft."

Professionalism can only go so far to take care of basic needs.

Professionalism will not get you a room at a hotel.

Professionalism will not get you a dead-head ticket to your domecile.

Professionalism will not cover housing costs in the most expensive region in the country.

Professionalism will not counteract the insidious effects of fatigue.

Money will. Mr. Mitchel: pay pilots a professional salary first, and then we can talk about what they do with their off-duty time...

 

[skywiz]

Word. I'm not sure how military pilots ever got to be so "special" in the eyes of the majors. I've flown with good ones and bad ones. I just haven't seen anything to really differentiate them from civilian trained pilots.

Maybe they are just being rewarded for their service from patriotic members of airline managements?

500-1000hrs ex-military pilots?? What mil pilot leaves the military with that few hours? Any military pilot going straight to the majors has approx 2000-3000 hrs of fixed wing time. Realize also that especially now a days, ex mil pilots serve a minimum of 10 years flying in the military before they apply for civilian jobs.

I used to be a civilian CFI/I and am now a mil pilot. Its not that military pilots are so "special", its more to do with the fact that while they might have fewer hours than their civilian competition at the regional level, they have undergone different flight training programs and done various types of flying - some more demanding than others.

Even as a CFII with 700 + flight hours, I had to work very hard, especially toward the end of flight school. It wasn't easy. I remember a time that I wasn't yet ready (when I should of been) to carrier qual at the boat. I went to a progress review board and they basically told me that I had one more chance. If I didn't pass, I was kicked out.

There shouldn't be this animosity towards mil pilots. Every group pays their dues. While I respect the fact that regional pilots go thru lots of spending their own money for training, crappy schedules, low pay, etc... mil pilots pay their dues as well. It isn't a stroll in the park for 10 years of mil flying before walking into a major airline job.

 

[BoilerUP]

There shouldn't be this animosity towards mil pilots. Every group pays their dues. While I respect the fact that regional pilots go thru lots of spending their own money for training, crappy schedules, low pay, etc... mil pilots pay their dues as well. It isn't a stroll in the park for 10 years of mil flying before walking into a major airline job.

I don't think there's animosity toward military pilots per se....more the perception that they receive preferential treatment and hiring at major/legacy airlines because of their military background when pilots who went the civilian regional airline track tend to have substantially more flight experience than their military pilot competition.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It takes one and a half years for MIL pilot training. It takes six months for CIV. The DoD puts large amounts of money into flight training.

 

[WayBack]

500-1000hrs ex-military pilots?? What mil pilot leaves the military with that few hours? Any military pilot going straight to the majors has approx 2000-3000 hrs of fixed wing time. Realize also that especially now a days, ex mil pilots serve a minimum of 10 years flying in the military before they apply for civilian jobs..

I know a guy who left the USAF after flying F-16s for 20 years....he had just over 2,000 hours TT.
Another guy I know, been flying Hornets for the last 7-8 years....he had 900TT when he interviewed at FedEx

 

[WayBack]

It takes one and a half years for MIL pilot training. It takes six months for CIV. The DoD puts large amounts of money into flight training.

Point being?
Yes, military pilots are the best trained pilots out there. That's a no brainer.
But how does dropping bombs and landing on an aircraft carrier relate to the 121 world?
Yes, they can learn, but as cheesey as it sounds. Civillian flight training is now being geared more towards airline operations....AQP?

 

[veneratio]

How about congress mandated pay, Im sure if pilots were compensated more, they could afford to buy hotel rooms, would not have to work as many hours to make a decent wage, be less stressed (stress causes fatigue), and would attract more qualified individuals.

 

[skywiz]

Point being?
Yes, military pilots are the best trained pilots out there. That's a no brainer.
But how does dropping bombs and landing on an aircraft carrier relate to the 121 world?
Yes, they can learn, but as cheesey as it sounds. Civillian flight training is now being geared more towards airline operations....AQP?

Actually, I went through 3 - 3.5 years of flight training (including training in fleet aircraft) before I even started flying missions in my fleet aircraft. We had the longest aviation training pipeline in the Navy.

Eventhough I am not an airline pilot, I am under the impression that the reason the majors like all the PIC time is that it shows you have been in a position to make decisions from the perspective of the "captain" or aircraft commander. They know you can fly, its really not that hard.

By the way, you are right... you don't land on carriers or drop bombs in the civilian world... you fly airways and ILSs. Of our mission, the part of it that consisted of flying to a land base ILS was the easy part.

The hard part was being the aircraft commander having to decide when to bingo(divert) back to home field because of an engine or hydraulic failure, dealing with emergencies or pitching decks and bolters around the boat when 900 miles from the nearest land with only 3 hrs of fuel, whether to go/no go because of some mechanical issue...but the mission HAS to get done(but done safely of course)... i.e. decision making at the PIC level. Its about handling a situation under pressure and in many times in foreign countries... but not in the standard flying from point A to point B (ILS to ILS) scenario. While this may not be the same flying that the airlines do... I would imagine the appeal from the Majors perspective is the value of the experience gained from decision making in a very dynamic environment.

Also, I am not under the impression than any major airline hires ex mil pilots exclusively. My understanding is that they hire a mix of different backrounds across the board.

 

[jonjuan]

How about congress mandated pay, Im sure if pilots were compensated more, they could afford to buy hotel rooms, would not have to work as many hours to make a decent wage, be less stressed (stress causes fatigue), and would attract more qualified individuals.

The problem is, most pilots would put the money in the bank and sleep in the crew room versus spending it on a hotel room. Work fewer hours? They would pick up open time on their "extra" days off to be able to pay for toys. Same stress, just more toys. (not that there's anything wrong with more toys.)