Senate hearing re Regional airlines

[701EV]

It's all smoke and mirrors boys.

I'll bet nothing is going to change.

701EV

 

[BrickTop]

So give me a proposed regulation that would fix this....

Pay pilots wages that afford them to live in their domiciles discouraging the need to commute from places where their wages afford them a livable standard. Congress should force wages upon the airlines much the same as they do a general minimum wage.

 

[goodgig]

It's all smoke and mirrors boys.

I'll bet nothing is going to change.

701EV

Correctomundo.

 

[jonjuan]

Pay pilots wages that afford them to live in their domiciles discouraging the need to commute from places where their wages afford them a livable standard. Congress should force wages upon the airlines much the same as they do a general minimum wage.

People from the Northwest will not live in the NY or Atlanta area not matter how much you pay them. Many pilots want to work from a large city hub, but live in Mayberry where their wife grew up.

 

[DXR-Beavis]

So give me a proposed regulation that would fix this....

I'll try to make it sound FARish...

"No person shall make human mistakes while acting as a required flight crew member of a transport category aircraft."

I agree with the idea of raising the bar where hiring standards go, but the human element will always be there no matter what the experience level. I'm sure the geniuses in the Congress will find a way to regulate human error and forever remove it from aviation. Well, or at least they'll hold some hearings, do a little grand-standing, and just enjoy listening to themselves babble.

Come to think of it....maybe a "sin tax" on low-time airmen would fix it. Whether it's on the airline or the employee is for someone smarter than me to decide.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Yeesh. Some of those postings on ABC's blog have the potential to be quotable, but man, couldn't you have sent them to one of FI's grammar Nazis first?

"I iz a pylut. Dey dont pay me reel gud. I fell sad."

ALPA has media spokesmen for a reason, but I love the fact that we can shoot off emails to the media while the topic is hot.

 

[ASApuppy]

I know there are many hurdles to overcome with my ideas, but here goes anyway.

1. change the rest to "behind the door" rest.

2. eliminate all discipline for "sick calls".

3. requirements for crew meals or time off to get them ourselves regardless of how late we are.

4. make continous duty overnights illegal. I have no problem with red-eyes, but most I know do stand-ups so they can perform another job during the day.

5. Virtual basing. Or even a step better, national seniority. Rebecca Shaw should not have to fly to EWR from SEA on the red-eye to go to work. She should have hopped on her Q-400 in Horizon paint, right there in Sea-Tac. Eliminating or reducing commuting would help both company and pilots (F/A's too).

As for the pay. I think most would agree that it starts and stops with the level of pay on the wide bodies. Kinda hard to justify paying a Saab 340 capt the same as B-747 capt. The Saab guy is working harder, but the media attention will be the same for an incident in each. First year pay has almost been an institution in this industry. Age 65 has only prolonged a looming crisis coming in retirements. There just aren't that many willing to shell out almost $250,000 to Embry-Riddle for an education and training to get a job at a 121 carrier making less than $20,000 per year. It use to be justified when you knew that there was a light at the end of the tunnel with a few years at a major that paid really well. I do like how the media as finally decided to focus on what first year pay is rather than 777 capt pay and making us assume that all pilots made that. I flew with a kid last year that was making $1100 per month payments on his student loans with 15 years to pay it off. In 10 years, where are the "Regionals" going to recruit from? I know Kit Darby was a too optimistic for his own reasons, but I agreed with him on this. As for the military, who is going to get out early these days? I'd stay in and get my pension for sure before ever looking at the airlines.

 

[deadstick]

This is a hot topic today, so the Congress is all hot to hold hearings and make the voters think they are earning their pay raises. Two or three years from now, this crash will be a distant memory (aside from those of us in the industry and those who lost friends/relatives) and nothing will have changed.

 

[NEDude]

I support the ATP thing for both pilots. But if you are talking to people outside of aviation, make sure you put into lay mans terms. For example: You need nearly five times the experience to fly boxes around in a Cessna than you do to fly passengers in a jet. That will get a lot of attention.

 

[B52GUNNER]

If you are going to be an AIRLINE PILOT, you need to have an AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT License. Sorry to the low time guys, but you can build time pass the checkride, then get your Airline job.

Also I agree that if there were higher pay available, more qualified pilots might come back. I left aviation for years because I could make better money elsewhere, and not be gone as much. I was stupid enough to come back at a bad time.

 

[Ridgeback]

If we demand a professional pay grade then we need to offer a professional product. I fly with guys all day long that are FAR from professional. So ditch the hair gel, Ipods, sunglasses hanging from your shoulder bars...or worse wearing them in the airpor, ect... I think most of you will understand my point....

 

[StarChecker]

Foreign Carriers for decades have used 300 hour pilots in the right seat of their heavy jets who have gone on to have stellar careers without as much as a scratch, so obviously it's not just time, or holding an ATP.

You cannot compare the ab initio training programs that international carriers use for their cadets to someone paying to sit right-seat in a 1900 for 250 hours, e.g. Gulfstream.

Very different situations...

 

[DX Rick]

If you are going to be an AIRLINE PILOT, you need to have an AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT License. Sorry to the low time guys, but you can build time pass the checkride, then get your Airline job. .

I agree. And no special favors for the military guys, you need to go build time else where if you're coming out of the military with only 500-1000 hours.

 

[skywiz]

the downside of higher pay

Yeah, a regional airline with first year pay higher than NetJets with their 2500tt minimums ain't going to happen any time soon.

A much more reasonable (and likely) figure would be the $35-40k ballpark, but even still I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

Just playing devil's advocate here... The increased pay may be a double edged sword - if Congress determines minimum pay of a higher amount, regionals will probably raise ticket prices across the board which could result in less demand for air travel and in turn less pilots = furloughs...

What is the lesser evil? Just thinking outside the box here...

 

[Hikoushi]

Just playing devil's advocate here... The increased pay may be a double edged sword - if Congress determines minimum pay of a higher amount, regionals will probably raise ticket prices across the board which could result in less demand for air travel and in turn less pilots = furloughs...

What is the lesser evil? Just thinking outside the box here...

If this were to only happen on the regional level, then that would mean the majors would not be similarly affected. So, it is conceivable that the majors and nationals would increase flights to satisfy the demand created by the regionals' flight reductions. In your scenario, it's possible that regional furloughs = majors' growth, and openings for better jobs and upward movement. I know, not likely, but hey. Outside the box is good.

 

[ratherbeflyen]

if Congress determines minimum pay of a higher amount, regionals will probably raise ticket prices across the board which could result in less demand for air travel and in turn less pilots = furloughs...

If you were to make every airline pay the second year pay rate from day one, or a flat 10k increase or something similar, I doubt it would equal .10 cents per ticket. Wouldn't surprise me if it was less than .01 cent per ticket. First year regional airline pilot pay is not the big cost in the airline industry.

I wonder how much money you would get if there was a pilot tax, like the TSA's fee, of 25 cents from each person who boarded your airplane. How many people a year to you move?

 

[skywiz]

If this were to only happen on the regional level, then that would mean the majors would not be similarly affected. So, it is conceivable that the majors and nationals would increase flights to satisfy the demand created by the regionals' flight reductions. In your scenario, it's possible that regional furloughs = majors' growth, and openings for better jobs and upward movement. I know, not likely, but hey. Outside the box is good.

I do see your point about majors' growth, however.... unfortunately when most people buy airline tickets, for example from KBUF to KLAX.... they don't buy Major airline tickets separate from regional tickets. They are paying for the regional + major airline tickets all in one bundle. This seems like it would have the potential to affect ALL pilots at the regional and major level. Now if it was just buying a ticket from KBUF to KJFK (regional only), this would apply to your example.... but most people that fly cross country probably take 2 flights on average (RJ and boeing/airbus) I would imagine. (i dont have the stats on that though)

I'm just afraid that Congress may come out with some really high pay (which again, not all that bad..) until ticket prices are jacked up so high that this industry gets dealt yet ANOTHER blow in addition to the recently sluggish economy and possible future high oil prices. Just things to think about... (Big Picture)

 

[OCP]

Foreign Carriers for decades have used 300 hour pilots in the right seat of their heavy jets who have gone on to have stellar careers without as much as a scratch, so obviously it's not just time, or holding an ATP.

One takeoff and a 6 hr flight followed by 1 landing, isn't quite the same as 5-6 legs a day in the weather all day.

 

[doh]

I agree. And no special favors for the military guys, you need to go build time else where if you're coming out of the military with only 500-1000 hours.

Afreakin'men!

 

[WayBack]

If you were to make every airline pay the second year pay rate from day one, or a flat 10k increase or something similar, I doubt it would equal .10 cents per ticket. Wouldn't surprise me if it was less than .01 cent per ticket. First year regional airline pilot pay is not the big cost in the airline industry.

I wonder how much money you would get if there was a pilot tax, like the TSA's fee, of 25 cents from each person who boarded your airplane. How many people a year to you move?

Thank God somone knows and understands this. Too bad the Unions don't! Otherwise they wouldn't be urging pilots to take paycuts to say their jobs.
Pilot pay will never drive an airline out of business!