• NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.

SeaWorld, Southwest Airlines Ending Partnership

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
Why would we read that when we've been under the philosophy of John Keynes the past 6 years? You know, there is no bounds to government spending. But hey, I guess you guys are good with that..

Keynes never said anything of the sort, which you would know if you had the ability to read something on a higher reading level than Green Eggs and Ham.
 

waveflyer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Posts
10,005
Total Time
12000
If our national debt--just under Obama--were its own country, it would be the third largest econom in the world. Our total debt-- $17 trillion--is about the size of the entire US economy as of last year. To pay it off, we'd have to take every penny earned by every man, woman, child, business, corporation, pot dealer and street walker for the entire year of fiscal 2013, while not spending a single additional penny. On ANYTHING.

Borrowing trillions to pay the equivalent of six Ecuador's ($101B) worth of welfare and unemployment is not solving any problems.

Good argument. (Has holes bc most of us have mortgages in the $300-$500k range plus some car and credit card debt- and we survive well enough on $150-$250k) Make it.
In the meantime we pay our debts within reason.
 

redflyer65

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2004
Posts
4,456
Total Time
8000
Keynes never said anything of the sort, which you would know if you had the ability to read something on a higher reading level than Green Eggs and Ham.

I thought you were smarter than that PCL, seriously. You need to understand what Keynesian economics are...

Either you haven't read it at all, or have reading comprehension issues because your statement above shows your ignorance. Or lack of a college degree, or both.
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
You've clearly never read any Keynes. Keynes certainly saw value in government spending, even deep into deficits, when the money was needed to boost an economy out of recession. But claiming that Keynes asserted that there was "no bounds to government spending" as you did is just plain ignorant. Keynes supported tight government control over fiscal and monetary policy in order to control inflation and prevent deflation. That means limiting government spending, not allowing it to go crazy. Keynes' ideal was a nominal 1-2% inflation rate into perpetuity, because it is the byproduct of a tightly controlled economy that is constantly growing and not risking deflation.
 

scoreboardII

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Posts
2,694
Total Time
xxxxxx
No, Keynes favored counter cyclical controls, stating in short to "fix the short term problem because we are all dead long term". In other words, government spending be damned to fix the short term labor problem. No mention of restraint in that theory.
 

waveflyer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Posts
10,005
Total Time
12000
Source score?
I'd like to see that
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
wave, it's a misquote, and a rather bad one at that. Here is what Keynes actually said:

"The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is past the ocean is flat again."

In other words, the fact that we'll all be dead eventually is not reason to ignore problems we experience while we're alive. He was responding to the idiotic assertions of right-wing economists that if we just sit around and let the free market work its magic, that eventually it will all sort itself out without our interference. Keynes' point was that yes, you can sit around and wait for the market to address the problem, and it will eventually work because eventually we'll all be dead and the problem will no longer be relevant, but in the mean time there will be a lot of suffering that could have been avoided if government had taken a role in addressing it.
 

scoreboardII

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Posts
2,694
Total Time
xxxxxx
I did say "in short" OBTW...:)

Keynes was wrong, look at the mess we are in today with debt and how the government tries to counter cyclically control spending. It's a sham.

If the government would have stayed out of the way, you wouldn't have had toxic home loans in the late 90's and onward, to folks who couldn't afford homes. Then, when that balloon popped, the government forced other institutions to buy the shaky ones, further compounding the problem.

Then GM failed, and instead of letting the market correct on it's own and come out with a stronger GM run through bankruptcy or stronger yet competitors, we have the same faulty government controlled auto industry where no one can fail, and no one takes any meaningful risk to improve the products.

We had shovel ready jobs, that were never ready. We could have given the workers each $100,000 plus and told to go home and we would have been better off. We increased the dependency on the government by tripling unemployment times, making that a three year job vacation, instead of incentivizing returning to work, or returning to make more business's and more jobs.

This is the slowest, longest recovery from recession/depression in the history of modern economics, ever. All because someone thought Keynes was right. Except, now we get to try and pay off that debt for the next 20 years. Which we know won't happen, they are monetizing it as we speak.
 
Last edited:

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
No, Keynes was not wrong. We haven't truly practiced Keynesian economics in this country in decades, so declaring them a failure is farcical. In fact, Keynes has been proven right based on the atrocious results of austerity in Europe. Even where minimal elements of Keynesian principles are involved, results have been better.
 

dicko

"It's a formidable scent"
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Posts
1,432
Total Time
10k ?
My eyes have been opened. I just opened the door and let my pets go. The man/animal world is now in harmony.

Maybe I should also just switch to being a complete vegan as well.


You have failed to reach the minimum intellectual standard for sentient life. May god have mercy on your soul. I'd post more, but my cats need milking.
 
Top