Scope Defeating Freedom Airlines

[BeechScrub]

Braniff and some others,

You need to educate yourself on the situation at Mesa Airlines which has caused Freedom Airlines to form. In a nutshell, ALPA!! Also, reread some of my posts at the beginning of the thread to find out how Freedom will be staffed. It will not be done the way you pointed out.

One thing I do agree with you on is that the captains who go to Freedom from Mesa will be those who do not have a desire to move on and will stay with Mesa till they retire. Therefore, the upgrade time is likely to be rather high. This is not so good for the FO's, like myself, who would like to move on someday.

BeechScrub

 

[earlthesquirrel]

I've heard that Mesa pilots will be the ones staffing Freedom airlines. Pilots will be allowed to keep their seniority and will be on a leave of absence from Mesa. Top pay is to be around 120 per hour. I do leave this post with a small amount of hesitation. I may be bought and sold at any moment.

Boeingman I too served as a pilot in the military and have been away from my family defending this country. Thank you for defending my right to free speech, and I will accept your thanks for defending your right to be a socialist. Oh hold on a second I thought I was just bought and sold for a moment but I was wrong. Hey b-man you are probably of at least average intelligence so could you please post something that isn't censored.

Fatburger congrats on your upcoming child, they can sure be a life changer.

 

[Wiggums]

If you for a moment think that Freedom Air is going to pay anywhere near scale or be anything more than flying bus drivers, you're kidding yourself.

I didn't know that the pay scales for Freedom had been announced. Anyways, it it's better then Mesa payscales as Johnny O has promised then atleast it's a start.

Then they're going to fill the FO seats with pay-for-training new pilots.

I didn't know that this had been announced either? Since when was Mesa PFT. I can't remember Mesa being PFT anytime in recent history.

I've flown for a non-union carrier before and IT IS NOT GOOD. If the company busts the FAA's duty regulations, who are you going to call? The FAA? They really don't get involved with stuff like that.

What about Skywest? Their pilots seem to be doing ok with no union.

 

[SaabStory]

AngryBoeingman,
I've been looking for petite, mid-twenty something, latin, female & since you're in the "flesh trade" business I figured if you had one to sell....

 

[FlyinBrian]

Bad management makes a union necessary. Problem is, once a union exists, management has to fight against labor to control cost. The union will always demand more, and management has to tell thim no. Pretty soon, managment hates labor because they are a constant thorn in the side, and will screw them over every chance they get. This sets up the adversarial relationship, which is self-perpetuating. The union can't go away, because management would roll over the pilots. Management can't back down becuase they'd go out of business if they met every demand the union made.

The reason Skywest has done alright is because they have decent management. Despite what you all may think, it is possible to have good pay and work rules without a union. Skywest's pilots are at least as happy as their unionized counterparts.

I think it is ridiculous to postulate that Freedom is going to operate with out-of seniority captains and PFT FO's, particularly when you examine Skywest. Sounds like a union scare tactic to me. Freedom will have to compete with other airlines to attract pilots, so if it's that bad, they'll go somewhere else. But if they offer better pay and rules than their unionized sister-airline, why not move?

 

[Jetsnake]

I am so impressed with how Lorenzo managed to clone himself, just remember that if your going to fly for this sheep herder you better get yourself a good razor and clippers, cause I can see he has an unlimited supply of velcro gloves and no K-Y jelly.
Baaaaaaaaaaah!!!

Jetsnake

 

[BeechScrub]

The pay and work rules for Freedom have not been announced yet. Mesa is not going to take captains out of seniority and PFT has never existed at Mesa. Jonathan Ornstein has described the contract that they are putting together for Freedom as having "all of the best attributes of the Skywest contract." With that being said, many Mesa pilots have suggested for some time now that their new contract (under negotiation now, sort of) should look very much like Skywest's contract.

BeechScrub

 

[typhoonpilot]

Pay for Training

BeechScrub


Mesa almost definitely had pay for training in the early 1990s. As I recall it was something like $10,000 for the privilege of being a new hire F.O. on a Beech 1900. I am glad to hear that they stopped it.

I had better not get started on the rest of this thread because I am still mad at Mesa for what they did to WestAir. For those Mesa pilots too young to remember it might be worth your time to find out about as it will have a direct bearing on Mr. Ornstein's strategy vis-a-vi Mesa/Freedom.

 

[BeechScrub]

PFT at Mesa?

Please explain how PFT was used at Mesa in the early 90's. This is news to me.

BeechScrub

 

[typhoonpilot]

PFT

BeechScrub:

I'm going to need some help from the bleechers on this one. I do recall it pretty clearly though, just don't have any links or historical information to back it up with. Essentially you paid for your new hire training when hired as an F.O. It was around $10,000. The year was 1992. Surely there is a, now, senior captain there that would know the details.