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Scope Defeating Freedom Airlines

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Go Johnny O!!! It sounds like ALPA is going to get a spankin!!!!

But seriously, I know a few Mesa pilots and they are pretty excited for this Freedom Airlines to get going. It sounds like a pretty good deal for Mesa and its pilots.
Maybe not...

Why are Mesa's pilot union leaders againist Freedom then?

Are Mesa pilots and Freedom pilots going to be on the same list?
Does anyone see the irony in this? The airline with the most restrictive scope clause, (USAirways) is also in the worst shape of all of the airlines. I believe that there is a relationship there. The rjdc is the only body working to secure our rights, and it's obvious that every pilot should be helping out.
This doesn't surprise me in the least. It was only a matter of time till some airline exec with an ounce of creativity was going to find a way to fly the 70 and 90 seat RJ's without some type of short sighted ALPA scope restriction blocking him.
ALPA has no right to complain about Freedom. It is the leadership of ALPA that caused Freedom Airlines to have a purpose for being. Jonathan is doing what he has to do to ensure that Mesa expands and the flying is protected for Mesa pilots. He has been trying to work it out with union leadership from USAirways, America West, and Mesa since the end of last summer so these planes could stay with Mesa, but no one would budge. Now Jonathan has no time to argue because he must start training soon since Freedom will start in July.

It's going to be a great deal for Mesa pilots; I am excited about it. They are going to give everyone on Mesa's seniority list the opportunity to fly for Freedom, in seniority order. The seniority lists will be separate. Freedom will start as an operating division of Mesa, but will be spun off as an IPO soon after its start-up.

I have a question for MESA pilots? Is your mec on board with the alter-ego freedom airlines?
And if they are not, would pilots who leave ALPA to go with freedom airlines be considered scab pilots? I'm also curious if there are any MESA pilots who have considered any future ramifications with trying to gain employment with a major airline after freedom?

thanks for your time.................furloughed fatburger:cool:
Just another way to get concessions from Mesa pilots.....nice threatening statement.....

"I'm going to give our people the opportunity to fly these airplanes. If they don't want to, I'll have to hire someone else."

So this guy is the C.E.O. of Mesa, he is in contract negotiations with the Mesa pilots (ALPA), and plans to start another carrier? Classic management whipsaw action........

I hope the Mesa pilot's stand their ground and don't settle for **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**tty wages. Can't you guys read between the lines here? Do any of you on this board think Mesa pays high wages to it's pilots??? I'm not certain what the Mesa pilots get paid, but I was a regional guy and I know we didn't make a whole lot of money. Obviously, this C.E.O. thinks the Mesa guys make too much, or else why would he make a statement like that??? He knows that the Mesa pilots would love to do that flying and he's using this alter-ego startup to threaten them.

If this new airline does start-up, I would look at it as taking away flying from Mesa, and in my own opinion I would equate these Freedom pilots to dimestreet whores.
The only way a pilot can be considered a scab is if he/she crosses the picket line and flies struck work. Mesa pilots are not on strike and the pilots who join Freedom would not be scabs. They would simply be taking advantage of a growth opportunity.

What future ramifications are you speaking of? If an airline were to not hire pilots from another particular airline because the pilots took the opportunity to fly larger equipment, make more money, and possibly improve their quality of life, then I'd say it is their loss.

As for the statements of UALX727, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, I would say you should educate yourself on the situation at Mesa before you accuse our management of whipsawing or call our pilots whores.

This article is a direct result of scope gone bad. There are some very interesting parts to this article:

Officials of the Air Line Pilots Association representing Mesa pilots . . . want one collective bargaining agreement that covers all of Mesa's divisions - Mesa Airlines, Air Midwest, CCAIR - as well as the new airline. "We don't care how he sets up his corporate structure," said Andy Hughes, chairman of the union representing Mesa pilots. "We're only concerned that we have one contract for all our pilots."
Hmmm...ALPA wants one contract for all the divisions at Mesa. It's ok for Mesa, but not for Delta?
A clause in the contract between US Airways and its pilots restricts the size of the jets the airline's regional partners can operate, even if they fly them for other carriers. That means Mesa cannot fly the bigger jets for America West Express, Ornstein said.
This is completely asinine. Why should the US Air MEC have any control over what a non-owned company flies for another carrier? But scope is a good thing, right? It would seem the US Air MEC is intent on driving not only their own company out of business, but any others they can drag down with them.
Ornstein said Freedom is being started to operate 40 new 64- and 84-seat Canadair regional jets that Mesa already had agreed to acquire over the next few years to fly routes for Tempe-based America West Airlines. Mesa flies regional routes for the airline under the America West Express name.
So what if Delta buys AWA? We have even more carriers under DCI - and how does Freedom fit in with their 70- and 90-seat RJ's?

I can certainly see the logic in Ornstein's move. Mainline MEC tries to limit his ability to do business, he counters that by starting an airline free of their ridiculous scope provisions. I don't see this as an attempt to start an alter-ego, whipsaw airline - it wouldn't have been necessary without the USAir MEC's over-the-top scope.

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