scabs.......

[inthepool]

Mr. Hat

I think you and I agree on a lot of things, and I appreciate your willingness to have usefull dialogue as opposed to throwing insults and accusation.

With regards to Skywest, here's my opinion. It appears to me that your greatest concern is, "what could happen in a merger." In my opinion, Skywest does not appear to be a candidate for acquisition. ACA is in the middle of a risky conversion (I hope it works) and that high risk situation is what made them a target. (Along with some prodding from UAL) Skywest, however, continues to turn a profit, and holds a considerable amount of cash on hand. They are well managed, and I'm sure if hostile takeover protection didn't already exist, ACA's recent adventure has inspired them to take the proper measures. Also, your concerns about management at SKW changing payrates is unfounded. SKW pilots have a legally binding contract just like you do, they just didn't pay a 3rd party to negotiate it for them.

As far as unions protecting jobs and pay after mergers or acquisitions, what happened to places like CCAir, or Westair, or TWA?

 

[Mr Hat]

I only brought up Skywest because someone else did. I have no beef with Skywest at all. But just because you arent on the block to be aquired dont assume you never will be. Most of the time things like that happen so quickly nobody saw it coming. TWA, got shafted because APA was the ones taking them over and the TWA guys didnt fight all the hard because they knew that they were going to loose their jobs without American taking them over anyway. That was a weird one. I cannot comment on CCAir or Westair as I am not familiar with their situation. But point being that you stand a better chance of a fair integration as an ALPA carrier. Yes TWA was different but there are always going to be exceptions to the rule. What would happen if ExpressJet decided to buy Skywest? Not that Ive heard that but it very well could happen. There has been talk of "Regional" consolidation and frankly it makes a lot of sense. There is going to be too much "RJ" capacity out there very soon and who knows whats going to happen.

I'm not here to argue with anyone, But I do feel that there is alot of misconception of unions out there from the non-union folk. In my opinion airlines need to be unionized just because of the nature of the industry. Management is concerned with money first, pilots are concerned with safety first, sometimes those two lines come into conflict and a union can squelch a touchy situation by erring on the side of safety when the companies get out of control. Doesnt happen often anymore but if you read Flying the Line I you'll see that those kinds of things used to happen all the time. ALPA is credited with instating rest rules and other safety devices so that we dont have these problems now a days. We must stick together as pilots.

Having a union doesnt mean you have to be at war with you're company or scabs or anything else. But better to have one now then to wish you had one when merger time rolls around or you have some other kind of problem.

 

[whiskytangofoxt]

I know there are alot of hungry guys out there, but pay heed I know a guy( really not me) but he could not get a interview for 10 years after going to an Eastern interview right before the strike. after all it may be a raise for you, but for Christ ( allah, nimrod, buddah or whom ever you worship) sake take pride in your job and don't let them lower a bar that in already draggin swamp grass outta the glades

 

[flyn96]

So what mangement position does Mesaba 2425 hold???? He's obviously not a pilot.

 

[mesaba2425]

Makes for good reading:

http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/marxism/2003w29/msg00055.htm

Think before you act.

Awesome story. The people that call themselves "pilots" and do that sort of thing to pilots that cross the picket line are the scum of the earth.

 

[mesaba2425]

ALPA is in the business of making money! How much is Duane Woerth paid in salary/bonus representative to his secretary? I would imagine it isn't too different than at an average Fortune 500 company.

http://burlingtonvt.org/society-and-culture/discussion-boards/messages/20.html


http://lists.iww.org/pipermail/iww-news/2002-July/000006.html

 

[Morgoth]

Crossing a picket line is an unforgivable sin, but so are the acts of terrorism that are enacted upon scabs as well. Professional ostracization and shunning are perfectly appropriate, but if anyone did to me some of the things that happened to the Northwest guy whose wife killed herself, they'd be staring down the barrel of a gun held in self-defense -- and I can guarantee you they'd fail their next physical.

Scabs are scabs, but terrorism is also unforgivable. You'd think that in this day and age pilots, of all people, would recognize that fact.

 

[cl-65link]

Business 101- Management gets the unions they deserve, or when labor organizes, management has failed.

 

[FDJ2]

Re: Define SCAB?

Still no one has described SCAB, how about the ALPA who other unions picket lines?

The Eleventh Circuit Court referenced the following definitions, in footnote 7, of a scab in Dunn v. ALPA

"The various definitions of a "scab" in the labor context are: "(1): one who refuses to join a union (2): a member of a union who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3): a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4): one who works for lower wages than or under conditions contrary to those prescribed by a union."

 

[Mr Hat]

See, the thread below is what I mean! I dont know if it is true or not but if it isnt true it could happen in the snap of a finger and the employees cannot say boo about it. This is also another reason why the pilots at ALL "Regional" airlines NEED to strive for equality with their mainline partners. It is the only way to stop the incessent industry wide whipsawing! How much does an F100 pilot make at American and we are going to drive 70/90 seat RJ's down to the turboprop pay of an E145/CL65?!?

Equal pay for equal work!
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26872

 

[mesaba2425]

By contrast, Duane Worth, the head of ALPA, the Pilots' union of 49,224, earned $425,090. And, all HE had to do was enforce about 20 employment contracts. You'll find it in

http://lists.iww.org/pipermail/iww-news/2002-July/000006.html

which discusses the obscene salaries of heads of unions. A couple of short quotes from this article follows:

1. >Teamsters President James P. Hoffa was paid $228,713 in 2000. Allowances and disbursements increased the figure to $262,200. The Teamsters reported 1.4 million members.

2. >The president of the AFL-CIO, which has 66 affiliate unions with 13.2 million members, was paid $225,000 in 2000. John Sweeney's salary increased to $279,826 with disbursements.

3. The largest union in the AFL-CIO, the Service Employees International Union with 1.8 million members, paid its president $190,561 in 2000. President Andrew Stern's salary increased to $241,589 with allowances and disbursements.

=====BUT!!!=====

4. >The president of the Air Line Pilots Association ranked second in salary to the teachers' union in AP's spot check. President Duane Woerth was paid $313,392 in 2000. His salary jumped to $425,090 with
allowances and disbursements. ALPA reported 49,224 members.

 

[AvroJockey]

Are you running in the democratic primary for president? Please!! ALPA is in the business of making money! How much is Duane Woerth paid in salary/bonus representative to his secretary? I would imagine it isn't too different than at an average Fortune 500 company.

Physically assaulting someone for crossing a picket line is stupid and nonsensical. Just because you're in a union doesn't mean you have to act like a mobster.

Good luck mesaba. However, please keep the preaching down to a minimum. We still hear how Comair "carried" its "brothers" and it gets old real fast. [/QUOTE]


Actually, I a full-fledged Republican! Have voted that way since I could. Why don’t you read my posts! When did I say I supported physical assaults or threats? These actions are counter productive.

ALPA is not perfect! However, where would our profession be without this organization?

 

[AvroJockey]

Neither does ALPA, otherwise they wouldn't cater to the higher dues at mainline carriers at the expense of regional pilots.

Why is it that Skywest, a non union airline, was voted the best place to work on this message board?

Crossing the picket line is a terrible thing, especially considering the sacrifices made by the people walking it. By crossing that line you work against the great majority of your colleagues and betray them.

Using fear, property destruction, and wishing death and toil on someone to get your way is defined as terrorism. Anyone who engages in such acts lowers themselves to the same level as bin laden and his cronies. As airline pilots, I think we stand on a much higher platform.

Skywest has decent leadership! Try flying for J.O. at Mesa without a union, or R.A. at Northwest. I would go to Skywest too if I were in the market for a new job! (Knock on wood), but I would never go to Mesa even with a union. (Because of their leadership not the pilot group)

If Mesa didn’t have representation, J.O. would have 100 motorcycles in his garage, and a few more jet trainers in his hanger. God! How small is his penis?

 

[CWASaab]

4. >The president of the Air Line Pilots Association ranked second in salary to the teachers' union in AP's spot check. President Duane Woerth was paid $313,392 in 2000. His salary jumped to $425,090 with
allowances and disbursements. ALPA reported 49,224 members.

Mesaba2425, or should I call you management's tool, or perhaps just JM,

So Duane Woerth made 300K in 2000, which was a good year for most airline pilots. Lots of money, sure, but what it isn't is grossly over what the top ALPA pilots made in 2000. I'm sure plenty of pilots at United, Delta and NWA made darn near that much in 2000. While your obession with posting this over and over again on this board suggest you don't agree, I think a senior captain at NWA deserves to be compensated for giving his time and effort to the union. It seems only fair to grant him pay that is slightly above what the pilots he represents make.

Get over it.

If you insist on posting salary information on this board, why don't you take the high road and post Paul Foley's salary and bonus information. As well as Bob Weil, John Spanjers and the rest of the Mesaba Senior MisLeadership Team?

At least Duane Woerth can point to the unification of FDX, CAL and other groups under the ALPA banner to justify his pay (not that I think he needs to justify his pay, least of all to you). What has Mesaba's leadership accomplished?

They have given away our companies' money on the *hope* that it would gain favor with NWA. They have agreed to park Avros. They have overseen the move to the disastrously undersized facilities in DTW. They wasted millions of dollars buying a money lossing airline in Montana. They agreed to fly Saabs in MEM so that PNCL could go all jet, and continue to grow in our stead. They changed the name of the holding company and moved their offices downtown, no waste in that, especially with all the extra space at the new GO. They start feel-good programs to fool the employees into thinking they are committed to the company (what ever happened to the CASH-FLOW program?).

And since you seem so fond of quoting newspaper articles didn't Paul Foley make it onto a list of the most overpaid Twin-Citites CEOs?

If Mesaba can continue to pay for Paul Foley's choice to commute to his job, including paying for his MSP housing, then they can pay for what we deserve.

A strike is not my goal, but I am willing to withhold my services if that is what it will take for mangement to pay me what I deserve. And surely if management choses that course than they can afford what we deserve.

 

[js31pilot]

For those of you that are splitting hairs about scabs it is just no use. Go ahead and cross and face the consequences.....