scabs.......

[pilotyip]

What defines a scab?

Speaking of the ALPA pilot brother hood and the naming of SCABs. Those who display "The holier than thou" SCAB flag do not face reality. The SCAB definition is so broad, and it is applied as the case fits. Now the guys who crossed the EAL line in 1989 on the first week of the strike probably define the word SCAB. But how about the EAL guys who went on strike and then returned to work 3-6 months later are they SCABs? How about the EAL ALPA members that crossed the IMA picket line to take the FE jobs in the 60's, were they SCAB's? How about the CAL guys who crossed the line and were then welcomed back into the fold by ALPA, are they SCAB's. How about the CAL guys hired in 1988 5 years after ALPA went on strike, are they SCABs? How about the Air New York and People's Express pilots who were absorbed into CAL are they SCAB's. How about the ALPA guy who gets out his scab list when you are jumpseating to see if you are on it, normally the F/O. There are offical SCABs flying for just about every airline in this country, but I have never heard of a guy getting the list out when he is looking for a jumpseat to see if one of the crewmembers offering him a ride is on the list. I was offered a job at CAL in 1983, my union buddies in my reserve unit told me I would be branded as a SCAB if I did and end up working for some non-sked at YIP. Well the guys who crossed the line were Capt's at CAL almost their entire careers. I elected to follow my union squadron mates advice and I am working for some non-sked at YIP. Did I make the right choice? I am a former union member, when Zantop elected to go out of business (almost) we were all let go, the union did nothing to attempt to find us another job, or get us training to increase our chances of getting another job. They only took dues out of our last pay check. Then Zantop elected not to go out of business and said it would have to renegoiate the contract, everyone took a cut in pay and days off, where an Electra Capt made about the same as a F/O at USA Jet, a non-union company. In defense of ALPA, it has made the airline job a fantastic job, and stopped alot of bad practices by management. Like the ALPA Air carrier I used to work, TA, they used to lay off 1st year pilots and then rehire them, at first year wages a couple weeks later, fully trained, ready for a trip the day they returned, but still a first year pay for another year, not second. They have set the standards followed by most companies in the airline industry, but they are not the "BrotherHood" of pilots protecting the world against SCAB's, they are a business that sells dues.

 

[saabservant]

Correction: "they" (we) are protecting the profession against race-to-the-bottom so-called management teams that are constantly looking for the next group of new pilots to whore themselves out. Scabs are the LEAST of our worries.
Not bidding against other pilot groups is a much higher priority, so we can set a standard of compensation and rules.

Your history lesson is interesting, but look at our current situation. We are the tip of the spear, and are getting HEAVY support from all across ALPA....whether we remain 3rd class citizens within alpa remains to be seen. Like everything else, it is up to the guys at the big carriers. They know now that if we cave, their furlough notices will be in the mail...

Seeyaaa

 

[AvroJockey]

Very nice. And yet another reason unions suck.

Oh yah! A population pooling their resources to fight for what is right!

The world would be a much better place without this! Just think we could still be under the rule of England, calling elevators lifts, and spelling "tire" with a "Y". Our population would still be segrigated, and woman couldn't vote.

Life would be so good for those White English Guys.

The funny thing is I use to be as ignorant as you - in High School!

 

[100LL... Again!]

Avrojockey's intelligent, insightful post does little to enhance the credibility of the union agenda.

It is always upsetting when emotion and opinion is offered up as reasoned discourse.

 

[AvroJockey]

Avrojockey's intelligent, insightful post does little to enhance the credibility of the union agenda.

It is always upsetting when emotion and opinion is offered up as reasoned discourse.

I'm curious, what makes you qualified to blast ALPA or other unions?

Also, I believe paralleling labor to race and/or gender is appropriate. The Labor Movement is just a defining period in our history as Human Rights!

 

[CitationLover]

"Also, I believe paralleling labor to race and/or gender is appropriate. The Labor Movement is just a defining period in our history as Human Rights!"


Are you running in the democratic primary for president? Please!! ALPA is in the business of making money! How much is Duane Woerth paid in salary/bonus representative to his secretary? I would imagine it isn't too different than at an average Fortune 500 company.

Physically assaulting someone for crossing a picket line is stupid and nonsensical. Just because you're in a union doesn't mean you have to act like a mobster.

Good luck mesaba. However, please keep the preaching down to a minimum. We still hear how Comair "carried" its "brothers" and it gets old real fast.

 

[Mr Hat]

This is a disturbing thread. Either there are quite a few people posting who arent employed by a union airline and are ignorant or there are a lot of scabs in the airline industries future. Do not cross a picket line.....ever!
I deal with a bunch of scabs who have power and choose to use it against my pilot group any chance they get. Only one small group, but they cause a great deal of trouble in their quest to get rid of ALPA. Scabs do not care about anyone but themselves, they are a menace and they are counterproductive. Sure they'll cross the picket line but then gladly accept the gains that their "brothers" got for them by walking the line.

Read "Flying the Line I and II"! If you fly struck work, you will pay the concequences...end of story. Unions dont "suck" they paved the way for this profession, as it is we are loosing ground due to the 50 seat whipsaw and they are slowly dumbing down major airline wages. If you want any kind of future, you will support you're union. We need to reverse this course before we become second rate bus drivers. Protect your profession!

 

[inthepool]

Scabs do not care about anyone but themselves

Neither does ALPA, otherwise they wouldn't cater to the higher dues at mainline carriers at the expense of regional pilots.

Why is it that Skywest, a non union airline, was voted the best place to work on this message board?

Crossing the picket line is a terrible thing, especially considering the sacrifices made by the people walking it. By crossing that line you work against the great majority of your colleagues and betray them.

Using fear, property destruction, and wishing death and toil on someone to get your way is defined as terrorism. Anyone who engages in such acts lowers themselves to the same level as bin laden and his cronies. As airline pilots, I think we stand on a much higher platform.

 

[pilotyip]

Define SCAB?

Still no one has described SCAB, how about the ALPA who other unions picket lines?

 

[Mr Hat]

I dont agree with terrorism in order to stop scabbing. Thats not what I was defending.
As for ALPA not watching out for the "regionals", that may have been true in the past however they are starting to see that we are all connected. The pilots at the majors are also being hurt by mass 50 seat expantion, whipsawing and low wages. Its all trickling UP to them. You will see a major change in policy at ALPA in the very near future.

Skywest being voted the best place to work......Well, All I gotta say to that is that things may be fine now, but what happens when Skywest gets aquired by a union carrier?(50-seat consolidation is being predicted by anaylists) What happens when the "Regional" industry downturn hits (That too is being predicted) what protections do you have against them lowering you're wages to compete?
I hate to break it to you but this board does not reflect a majority of pilots in the aviation industry, just a small portion. So a poll on this board means about nothing and the info on this board is sketchy at best due to the sources. Boards like this one are fun, but they are breeding grounds for rumor and misconception.

Skywest may very well have a great management team in place that actually cares about thier pilots. However, management teams change. Just look at poor ACA and Mesa's attempt to get them!
Those who do not know the benefits of airline unions have never worked for a union airline. It is very important, even if you're management doesnt give the pilots a hard time. In the case of a merger, if a non-union carrier is aquired, they will most certainly end up stapled to the bottom of the unions seniority list! Being a good unionist doesnt mean that you are at constant war with the company....just that the pilots look out for each other. Frankly, I like the management team we have at ExpressJet....and we are in contract negotiations. I'm not at war with anyone. Now that being said, if it comes to a strike, I will walk the line. I hope it never comes to that because nobody wins in a strike situation, but I will do it if necessary. If any of my co-workers or some off the street idiot choose to cross my line, I will ignore them when I go back to work and they will never occupy my jumpseat. Hell, I might even tell him what I think of him. But Im not going to crap in his bag. I think ignoring him would lead to a crappy enough existance.