saw runway at 50' w/GS out of service

[Oakum_Boy]

Probably coupled with VNAV engaged. And you can reject the landing anytime up to thrust reverser deployment. It is prudent if you can't see the runway anymore.

 

[Huck]

Probably coupled with VNAV engaged

You're supposed to disconnect by 50' below MDA, right? Leastwise that's true at the 3 carriers I've worked for.

 

[FLYLOW22]

The glideslope for the ILS runway 28 approach was unusable at the time of the accident due to the snow. The crew stated they were made aware of this by air traffic control when they were cleared for the approach to runway 28.

Holy crap! Um, me thinks the craft should have not descended below about 400-600 ft HAT in accordance with NON PRECISION APPROACH LOC mins... Oh boy!

What ever happened to the good old reasons to crash, the John Wayne reasons to crash like:

-Autopilot failed while flying over the everglades prior to AP Disc warning horns

-Upper section of fuselage separated from body of aircraft due to corosion

-Engine departed aircraft and all hydraulic fluid on that side of craft drained from systems causeing flap/slat retraction and subsequent unstable flight



WOW!

 

[FLYLOW22]

You're supposed to disconnect by 50' below MDA, right? Leastwise that's true at the 3 carriers I've worked for.

Huck, Depends on the equipment flown. Certification thing.

Airbus A320: Autoland capable.

CE560: 180 ft. AGL on a Cat 1 ILS

 

[Huck]

Perhaps I was too vague. I'm current cat IIIb in the MD11 myself.

Let me put it as a question then: is anybody out there allowed to leave the autopilot on below 50' below MDA on a NON-PRECISION approach?

 

[DrProc]

Huck, Depends on the equipment flown. Certification thing.

Airbus A320: Autoland capable.

CE560: 180 ft. AGL on a Cat 1 ILS

Airbus can autoland on a non precision approach?

 

[ultrarunner]

All right, from 10 minutes before the overrun to 10 minutes after the overrun, the airport is reported 1/4 mile in heavy snow! And you can assume blowing snow too when you look at the winds. I'm going to go out on a limb and say a fair amount of runway contamination, what do you think?

Ceiling appeared to be right at mins as the chart shows 500 and a mile for a LOC only..or 3/4 depending upon the category.

Maybe these guys were seasoned winter fliers, maybe not, but speaking from a person that is finishing my 19th winter of professional flying in the north east, I surely would NOT have expected to be able to land out of that approach after having received an RVR of 2000.

Blizzard conditions, blowing snow, marginal ceilings, turbojet aircraft and a NON-PRECISION APPROACH???

I count myself lucky this hasn't happened to me since I remind myself every nasty winter day that I can learn from these reports each winter.

It will be interesting to see more of the details as they become available. Couple things that come to mind...

....calculated landing distance vs. available pavement....

.... when they actually SAW the runway environment....

At this point we're simply assuming they had 500/1 or the corresponding ceiling and RVR but there is a fairly big gap from 500/1 and 2000 rvr.

Read and learn.

I don't think so.

This outcome was quite predictable.

 

[ultrarunner]

Probably coupled with VNAV engaged. And you can reject the landing anytime up to thrust reverser deployment. It is prudent if you can't see the runway anymore.

Was this operator authorized to shoot a green source approach with VNAV engaged? That would be the first I have heard of that combo.

Or do they fly this approach in white source with VNAV engaged.

I see the LNAV approach to runway 28 does not have vnav...only lnav.

We can only have vnav coupled when shooting an LNAV/VNAV approach. LOC is a green source approach only.

I wonder if they were cheating and actually using the GS and had it coupled?

 

[ultrarunner]

Perhaps I was too vague. I'm current cat IIIb in the MD11 myself.

Let me put it as a question then: is anybody out there allowed to leave the autopilot on below 50' below MDA on a NON-PRECISION approach?

We are when shooting an LNAV/VNAV. But NOT on a LOC only.

 

[Huck]

We do LNAV/VNAV too, but it still comes off at 50' below (a real easy way to bust a checkride is to forget this - it's so much like a precision approach...).