Safest Charter Companies

[captaincaptain]

icefr8dawg
Are you referring to the accident at the end of July? Because, I don't believe the NTSB has found the cause of that accident. By your post it would appear that you already know it was the operator's fault. Could you elaborate or share the information you have?
Thanks

 

[AZ Typed]

This is simple. Who is running the show, as in...who is flying and maintaining the airplane. Look, ARGUS, WYVERN, NJ, whomever...it all comes down to who the hell is running the show on THAT individual airplane, their attitude, and YOUR attitude towards safety as an owner. NJ does a good job, and they package this fact in their sales pitch. But any operator, pilot, owner, etc...who "gets it" will be the safest. This is an easy answer to a question that people often overcomplicate.

AZ T

 

[icefr8dawg]

icefr8dawg
Are you referring to the accident at the end of July? Because, I don't believe the NTSB has found the cause of that accident. By your post it would appear that you already know it was the operator's fault. Could you elaborate or share the information you have?
Thanks

The Hawker accident, yes. Unfortunately, no I can't provide further information. However, as a member of the flying community around here I can say definitively that that particular operator did not "get it" Last I heard they lost a court battle with ARG/US and pilots lost jobs.
I've been part of the arg/us process. Having worked in another regulated industry with audits every quarter I think the arg/us process has holes in it and can be manipulated.
The big brokers and corporate departments want audited charter partners and supplemental lift so firms are forced into the model.
When my boss rides another aircraft the due dillagence performed goes beyond running an online report on an operator or pilots.

 

[pilotyip]

we are gold plus

Over all this portion of the aviation industry is reasonably safe. For extra comfort, I would look at companies that are AR/GUS and WyVern Gold Plus or Platinum. These are outside audit organizations that set a high store by safety management systems and internal audits.

However, it is important to keep in mind that you are dealing with complex machines with thousands of parts, weather and people. Put those three things together accidents are bound to happen, no matter if you are 121, 135, 91K or 91.

AR/GUS called us a Gold/Plus, we have never lost a passenger

 

[Publishers]

The Argus program is fine, the problem with it is that it is geared to larger charter operations with multiple crew options, and enough people to carry out the administrative process. The best thing about the process is your preparation for the audit. The people we had at our first audit do not want to spend anytime really looking but more go down the list and see if you do it their way.
Example, you have one Hawker 800 in your fleet and have two pilots who are dedicated to that aircraft. You do not have multiple choices to add to the risk matrix for a particular flight or airport. They talk about crew pairings but in the example, you have one.
Safety is just as much a culture as a program. The best charter company is one of any size where everyone understands that safety comes before all other considerations. The crews need to understand that and that regardless of their years of experience, the margins and procedures are there for a reason.

 

[pilotyip]

yes, but you have to document

The Argus program is fine, the problem with it is that it is geared to larger charter operations with multiple crew options, and enough people to carry out the administrative process. The best thing about the process is your preparation for the audit. The people we had at our first audit do not want to spend anytime really looking but more go down the list and see if you do it their way.
Example, you have one Hawker 800 in your fleet and have two pilots who are dedicated to that aircraft. You do not have multiple choices to add to the risk matrix for a particular flight or airport. They talk about crew pairings but in the example, you have one.
Safety is just as much a culture as a program. The best charter company is one of any size where everyone understands that safety comes before all other considerations. The crews need to understand that and that regardless of their years of experience, the margins and procedures are there for a reason.

When being inspected you have to produce documentation to show you are performing safety functions, things like Safety meeting minutes, Emergency Action plan drills, Investigative reports with findings and recommendations. It is a lot of paper work to prove that you are safe.

 

[boeing72]

I work for a AR/GUS Gold certified operator.

I can tell you that our operation is not at all organized or safe.

Yes we all go to Flight Safety once per year. Our captains have little or no jet time with no two person crew experience.

Our Ops Sec is very limited and no real procedures or stadardization.

AR/GUS is a joke, pay them money.

 

[captaincaptain]

AR/GUS Gold is nothing more than a background check. The auditors never look at your procedures. AR/GUS Gold plus is those who get audited and can't achieve the "Best Business Practices". AR/GUS Platinum is much more stringent. You can't just pencil whip your documents to get the Platinum rating. It still doesn't mean that they are never going to have an accident. It just means they have policies and procedures to greatly reduce the likelihood of an accident. You can be the safest driver in the world and still have an accident on the road. Sometimes there are circumstances beyond our control. You just need to do EVERYTHING you can to increase the safety.

 

[pilotyip]

Not my experience

AR/GUS Gold is nothing more than a background check. The auditors never look at your procedures. AR/GUS Gold plus is those who get audited and can't achieve the "Best Business Practices". AR/GUS Platinum is much more stringent. You can't just pencil whip your documents to get the Platinum rating. It still doesn't mean that they are never going to have an accident. It just means they have policies and procedures to greatly reduce the likelihood of an accident. You can be the safest driver in the world and still have an accident on the road. Sometimes there are circumstances beyond our control. You just need to do EVERYTHING you can to increase the safety.

They spend 4 hours with me, dug through everything I had, very pointed questions. Good advice on how to make it better. In all they were in our building 3 days.

 

[ksu_aviator]

They spend 4 hours with me, dug through everything I had, very pointed questions. Good advice on how to make it better. In all they were in our building 3 days.

They do do that. The problem is that paperwork can say what ever the author wants it too. I worked for a charter company that was platinum. I gaurantee you that at the end of every trip, the paper work was golden. No glaring issues ever made it to the archived paper work. Yet, many repairs where signed off, but not complete and much of the training was very forgiving. Those practices probably continue today. Until they have an accident, no one will ever care and they will not get caught.

The point is, until a company has an accident or some one blows the whistle, AR/GUS will never be able to come up with anything substantial on any company. The dirty little secret is that anyone can find what AR/GUS finds. All they can find is accidents and violations and that is on the FAAs website. Maybe, on occasion, they'll find something that the FAA didn't know. But, that is the exception, not the rule.