s.r. 65 implications

[PHXFLYR]

Remember back when I was a new hire and it was time to head over to SWAPA HQ for the pizza party. Mr. Horse-man comes in and addresses our class with item number 1 being the big bad age 60 rule and how totally unfair it is! Me being a former ALPA guy, I suddenly feel a sharp pain in my backside and say to myself...."Here we go again. Another union crusading for the injustices perpetrated upon the poor indefensible senior guys." My thought was why here..why now? ALPAs membership voted against the change and SWAPA is in favor of the change. Why would SWAPA choose to assume this burden almost entirely on its lonesome? When I finally got out on line, I, with a smirk and a grin received my answere...STOCK OPTIONS. Guys at the top of our seniority list tend to have the most pull when it comes to issues affecting our pilot group. They also are the ones with the most vested in the company. They are the ones who helped make SWA what it is today and God bless em for it. They are the ones who have Herb's ear. They are the North Dallas 40, the Houston guys.... They are also the ones sitting on millions of stock options which, if not exercised before their retirement day are worthless! The problem lies in our present stock price which sits in the 15-16 dollar range. You have millions of options with strike prices in the 15-16 dollar range, which if exercised today would yield .50-1.00 dollar a share. Now say I change the age 60 rule to 65. That gives those guys an extra 5 years of potential upswing in the stock price. Say 2 years from now things are a little rosier and the stock price is in the 30-35 dollar range. Now with a strike price of 15 dollars a share you stand to make 15-20 dollars an option(20X more money). This would be a huge windfall for a bunch of guys who were for so many years compensated with options and not a paycheck. Approach Herb, approach the union. Make the age 60 rule a priority and we are where we are today. This is about MONEY.....not discrimination. The problem with unions is that any gain for one part of the pilot group usually comes at the expense of another...the junior guys. For thoughs of you out there who don't think this will affect you, wake up!! You will see upgrades slow in the best of times. You will see upgrades stop in the worst of times. You will see pilot costs skyrocket as productivity goes down, insurance rates go up.

So what happens if AGE 65 retirement becomes a reality, your North Dallas 40 types approach that age and the stock price is STILL at 15 dollars per share? Will they then try to get the retirement age pushed back to 70?? Man...I hope not. Interesting post.

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

QUOTE. From Jim Smyth

Did I benefit from the guys that went before me, Sure. Not much I could have done either way. Did I ever have a vote on it in my life, nope. When you are in the beginning of your career the last thing you are thinking of is retireing. When you get mid career where I am now, you see it coming. I am ready and have prepared for it. Some guys dont ever want to leave. Thats not my thought process. I dont perticularly like dealing with security,airports,hotels,check rides,rude people etc any more. Only thing I dont like is the fact that you get forced out with no benefits. If they made it to where you got Medicare and Social Security when you left at 60 I would be all for that......QUOTE

BINGO, my friend ! And that is where ALPA blew it BIG TIME. When Age 60 retirement became law,ALPA should have pushed for legislation that would have allowed for pilots to collect our Social Security benefits at that age rather than 65 seeing that we were being forced to retire by Go'vt mandate, But nooooo.... not ALPA. They spend the better part of 20 years trying to repeal age 60 in it's entirety only to reverse course on the issue in the early 80's , now wanting to keep it. If they would have been successful in getting legislation on the books allowing us to draw Soc. Security benefits at Age 60 from the onset, this whole Age 65 issue would be a non event. Have a nice Thanksgiving!


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Biggest thing I see that can wipe you out is after you retire you get a medical issue that takes all your retirement funds away. So I guess this is why I look forward to the choice of maybe going past 60 to keep the medical insurance for me and the wife and not have to dip into the retirement funds until needed.[/quote]


Very funny how many people don't realize this fact,especially at my house. When we would talk about retirement issues,all that they would mention is a paycheck after Age 60. I would then ask "Don't you want any post -retirement medical coverage as part of that package ? " Little did they realize that you could have an A plan that payed out in gold buillion but without any sort of medical coverage all it would take ,as you pointed out, was one catostophic illness to wipe out whatever retirement savings you accumulated up to that point. Right now I would say I am a "strong neutral" on the entire Age 60 debate, but if something does'nt change soon regarding medical coverage for retirees,I could see how I could be swayed to the other side of the issue for all the points that you mentioned in your post...a good one,I might add!


PHXFLYR

 

[Benhuntn]

I sure hope they change the age to 65. It will mean I can make a 10 yr career at SWA. It will also mean I can fly as a captain for a couple of yrs. In the mean time I hope the 40 yr old captains I fly with don't mind flying with a 54 yr old F/O who is glad to be here and having a blast flying. If the age 60 rule fails, oh well I will have to go back to bass fishing and deer hunting, but for now I have my fingers crossed that it passes. 10 yrs at SWA even if I don't make captain is better than ten yrs at most other companies flying as a captain and wondering if the next pay check will bounce.

 

[mdf]

First off I don't agree with government rules are that are imposed "just because". Age 60 in my opinion should never have been. That being said, there is no positive spin on this issue for F/O's. Most of us have families, and are incurring the majority of our expenses right now. This is the time we need to make the most money, not later. This is going to be a large financial setback. I know the argument is that I can make it up when I am in my 60's. I hope I get that far. If someone dies early, or medical's out it will never be made up. However, If I am working in my 60's at least I can by all the toy's I always wanted. Even though I will be too old by then to really care.

 

[race#53]

[ wanted. Even though I will be too old by then to really care.[/QUOTE]

mdf,
i am over 60 and waiting for my kids to "buy" some toys so i can get even.
We Grandparents even have sex.
The happiest people have simple needs and not much money but it takes
a lifetime of work to figure that out.

 

[Flopgut]

Wow. It is interesting to hear you SWA folks talk. With the exception of Benelli, you all have world views that do not match what is going on. SWA has momentum adequate to sustain it through this hard time yet you want things like the WA and age 60 to change more than anyone. I would suggest that you consider that this is perhaps a character flaw and less the edgy business instinct you feel boosts you. Fortune and gain is literally dripping from you and yet it is not enough. I can't imagine why anyone who upgrades in 5-8 years in a Boeing/121 operation would begrudge anyone else their personal opinion. Jim Smyth, maybe retirements didn't help out with your career that much, but your retirement will help others. You will have a good career, at 60 you need to let somebody else have a turn. Just telling another that their own good fortunes should be relegated to growth ignores that fact someday growth stops. That suggests, that at some point in the future, you don't care about pilots no different than yourself.

Things are going well enough over there I wish you would recuse yourselves from trying to shape policy in this business. Distracting us all with the WA and age 60 is taking attention from open skies and overseas ownership. You don't want legacies to fail on those issues do you?

 

[mdf]

mdf,
We Grandparents even have sex.


That's way more than I needed to know.


The happiest people have simple needs and not much money but it takes a lifetime of work to figure that out.

I have simple needs. Last night at dinner, my 8 year old son asked me if I was stranded on an island what one possesion would I bring? I said that was easy, my guitar.

I am not going to lose sleep over the age 60 debate. Just saying it is not a windfall for everyone.

 

[mdf]

Wow. It is interesting to hear you SWA folks talk. With the exception of Benelli, you all have world views that do not match what is going on. SWA has momentum adequate to sustain it through this hard time yet you want things like the WA and age 60 to change more than anyone. I would suggest that you consider that this is perhaps a character flaw and less the edgy business instinct you feel boosts you.

I view both the WA and age 60 in the same light. In my eyes they are both wrong. I don't care who wins or loses because they are in place. I would win with the WA being repealed. I would lose with age 60 being repealed. That is how life goes. I would call that integrity, not a character flaw.

 

[mdf]

. Distracting us all with the WA and age 60 is taking attention from open skies and overseas ownership. You don't want legacies to fail on those issues do you?

I do agree that open skies and overseas ownership needs to be addressed.