Rolling Rest - Explain Please.

[Pacific]

??
The 1700 lcl rest began the night before all this took place. We were scheduled to come out of rest at 0930am the next morning. That was pushed back (floated) until that evening at 1800 lcl when all the fun began. If the original on duty time of 0930 would have stuck then would have been limited to duty stop time of 2330lcl the same day, not 0800am the following day which is what was presented once our duty start time was floated until 1800lcl.

 

[gunfyter]

Clearly not ideal - but would "no rolling rest" have prevented this? Looking at the timeline, you were in rest until 1700 local, which means they can keep you until 0700 local. Since this was a pop-up trip at the END of the day rather than moving up the start time, I do not see how the no "rolling rest" rule would have prevented it.

Maybe the NJ guys can chime in - is there a rule that would have prevented this over there?

Yes.

His Rest ended @ 0300L... when he was required to answer the phone if they called. He should have been done flying by 1700L.

Time Not on Duty does not equal Rest.

Not a NJ rule ... its an FAR.
========================================

March 14, 1991
Mr. Thomas T. Gasta
Dear Mr. Gasta:
Thank you for your letter of September 13, 1990, regarding "standby and reserve duty." We apologize for the delay in responding to you.
You advise that you work as a pilot for an on-demand Part 135 charter company. Your question deals with the flight and duty time limitations outlined in Part 135. You ask what the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) considers to be duty or "required rest" when dealing with a flight crewmember who is performing a "standby" or "reserve" function for the air carrier.
The facts as we understand them are that at 600 a.m. you called the certificate holder to obtain your flight assignments for that day. You were told that as of 600 a.m. there were no flights to assign to you, but you were instructed to await immediate flight assignment by remaining at the hotel for contact by the certificate holder or, if not in your room at the hotel, to call the certificate holder every hour without fail to ascertain if a flight assignment materialized. We infer that the purpose of this procedure was to place you in the status of being immediately available for flight assignment if the occasion arose.
Your specific question is whether the period from 600 a.m. to 600 p.m. Tuesday, in the fact situation described in your letter, qualifies as a rest period under FAR Sec. 135.263(b) and Sec. 135.263(d). We shall discuss rest requirements as applied to standby/reserve principles generally and then answer your specific question.
FAR Sec. 135.263(b) reads:
(b) No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember to any duty with the certificate holder during any required rest period.
FAR Sec. 135.263(d) reads:
(d) Each assignment under paragraph (b) of this section must provide for at least 10 consecutive hours of rest during the 24 hour period that precedes the planned completion time of the assignment.
The FAA has consistently interpreted duty in FAR Sec. 135.263(b) and other similar regulations to mean either actual work for the air carrier, or present responsibility for work should the occasion arise. In addition, the period of relief from all duty must be prospective and free from all restraint to qualify as rest under that rule. When a flight crewmember is required to hold himself available for immediate assignment to flight duty by standing by the telephone (or via other communicative device, e.g., beeper), it constitutes restraint which precludes counting such time as a required rest period. Thus, under Sec. 135.263(b), an air carrier is prohibited from requiring a flight crewmember to standby the telephone for immediate availability during a required rest period.
The answer to your question is that the period 600 a.m. to 600 p.m. Tuesday does not qualify as a rest period required by FAR Sec. 135.263(b) because you were required to standby the telephone and keep yourself available for immediate assignment to flight duty. As such, that period constitutes a present responsibility for work should the occasion arise, and therefore is duty.
We feel constrained to comment that apparently the air carrier did not consider the 600 a.m. to 600 p.m. period as a required rest period because the air carrier assigned you to a required rest period of 1000 p.m. Tuesday to 800 a.m. Wednesday for the 800 a.m. Wednesday flight. It was only after the air carrier changed the schedule by assigning you the Miami-Houston and subsequent flight that the air carrier retroactively treated the 600 a.m. to 600 p.m. Tuesday period as a required rest period.
We also note that you raise a point on page 2 of your letter regarding the requirement for scheduled operators to relieve a flight crewmember engaged in scheduled air transportation from all further duty for at least 24 consecutive hours in any 7 consecutive days (FAR Sec. 135.265(d)). At this time, without the specific facts being available to us, all we can say is that you have raised a valid question. If you want to give us the precise facts concerning what was required of the flight crewmember, we will be glad to give you an interpretation.
We trust that we have satisfactorily answered your questions.
This response has been coordinated with the Air Transportation Division of the Flight Standards Service.
Sincerely,
Donald P. Byrne
Assistant Chief Counsel
Regulations and Enforcement Division
cc:AGC-220/200

 

[notapilot]

Thanks. That about takes care of that. How is Flexjet getting away with this "rolling rest"?

 

[WabiSabi]

Inigo,

When is the rest requirement per the FAR? Before your duty day? Or after you duty off?

The first 10 hours of time off is not your required rest, the last 10 hours prior to your duty on is. If they have given you a duty on time of 10 am for example, they should not be calling you from midnight on. think about it. Mgmt banks on the fact that you will assume your 10 hours of required rest is the first 10 hours after you duty off, so they can use you again when their fires are burning. The FAR's clearly state that you must have 10 hours of rest PRIOR to starting duty, therefore the REQUIRED rest period is those last 10 hours before you duty on time, and you should accept no phone call or communication before then.

exactly! short and sweet. thank you. it's about looking back.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

It does seem like we are blatantly violating the FARs. how is this being allowed? In my years at flex this has not really been addressed by management. have they ever come out and talked about it?

sincerely,

confused & restless

 

[gunfyter]

how is this being allowed?

Smokey the Bear use to say... "Only YOU can prevent forest fires."


Maybe only YOU can prevent Rolling Rest?

 

[gunfyter]

United States Court of Appeals
For the First Circuit


No. 99-1888

AVIATORS FOR SAFE AND FAIRER REGULATION, INC.,

Petitioner,

v.

FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION,

Respondent.


ON PETITION FOR REVIEW OF AN ORDER OF
THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION
http://www.law.emory.edu/1circuit/aug99/99-1888.01a.html​

 

[theskyking]

You guys have got yourselves a nice little Catch 22 there. If it is determined that the company is violating rest requirement, well you too, as PIC, are violating the same requirements.

You guys be careful out there. Tough rope to be walking trying to keep your company happy while being put in the position of possibly breaking regs. Sounds like you guys might want to take the steps Tom did and get a letter of clarification from someone higher up than your POI.

 

[gunfyter]

King,

It doesn't end with rolling rest. Late Pax cause you to go over 14 hrs? Sorry. FAA is not on board with that.

Even if the pax are on time and your trip is scheduled to be comleted @ 13:30 minutes when you taxi out. TEB tower tells you expect a 45 minute delay as you taxi towards the Hold Short line for takeoff....

You have to Return to the gate because now you cannot complete the flight in 14 hrs. Or get Dispatch to file you someplace else (Change Destination) you can reach in 14 hrs.... Crew change to complete the trip.

Yes I have the court documents for that too.

 

[Flex-ible]

??
The 1700 lcl rest began the night before all this took place. We were scheduled to come out of rest at 0930am the next morning. That was pushed back (floated) until that evening at 1800 lcl when all the fun began. If the original on duty time of 0930 would have stuck then would have been limited to duty stop time of 2330lcl the same day, not 0800am the following day which is what was presented once our duty start time was floated until 1800lcl.

Got it. I thought the big issue was with moving start times up - not back. I still think that is a bigger issue than this particular case.