RJ vs. DC-9-10

[HA25]

As a former "Regional", then Corporate, then American Airlines (newhire) then back to my corporate job (thanks to 9/11)... I can tell you that major airline jobs are there and would be more plentyful if there weren't so **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** many RJ's flying mainline style (non-feed) routes.

I personally want to see every major airline stick to tight scope language that doesn't focus so much on the type of jet being flown as much as what it's doing. For example I don't give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** if they want to shuttle a 50 seat ERJ back and forth from Austin to DFW or Stockton to SFO, so long as those pax are connecting to a mainline flight. But if they start to operate more like the mainline, then that needs to be stopped.

Building routes is also ok, but then we need a way to gurantee that this goes away after the market is established and mainline flights take over.

Otherwise this will lead to a downward spiral that will terminate with our profession going south.

 

[iflyhigh72]

Come back to SJU sharmuta. Ta'alla Hunna

 

[HA25]

OK, that was interesting.

 

[zymotic]

I agree V7. Even though I'm a CRJ driver I would rather fly a turboprop now and have all the RJs at the majors. I think there would be more jobs at the majors if the pay was a bit more reasonable. It looks like at least the USAirways MEC understands this.

 

[HA25]

You are smart, I saw this while I was an ATR captain too. And at American, the APA tried to get the Eagle list stapled on to theirs and management pissed on that, with the help of senior Eagle ALPA members.

The only solution is good (smart) scope language.

 

[Ty Webb]

I have nothing against corporate flying. I was just replying to Ty's remarks. He apparently has some self esteem problems and finds it necessary to call people that feel a regional job is for time building an idiot.

Too funny. Apparently, you still don't get it. If you treat a regional job as a timebuilder, what are you going to do when there isn't a major job waiting for you?

BTW- I don't have a problem with esteem, thank you, which is why I didn't end up at a "crappy" corporate job. I knew what I was worth, and found a job that treated me with respect. Maybe you should develop an esteem problem, too.

 

[HA25]

Ty,

If you treat a regional job like a career, then you start fighting with the mainline guys about expansion and job security and cause pressure against mainline job building which is good for all pilots. Again, good scope language is our best friend.

 

[Ty Webb]

VT:

The two are not mutually exclusive. You can protect mainline jobs and still not make a regional job a hellhole.

You can actually accomplish both by raising regional pay and work rules. This will actually make mainline equipment more competitive, since it won't be so easily "underbid" by the regional equipment . . . .leading to MORE, not LESS mainline positions.

The current situation of accepting much less pay (on a revenue-generated basis) only makes the current situation worse.

I may get on regional pilots sometimes for accepting less than they're worth, but it is because I think they work hard and deserve more.

 

[PTinbound]

Very Interesting, Ty.
Here's what my regional CEO said in the June 2002 issue of ATW,
regarding our contract negotiations and scope:

"It's a different religion. They (pilots) don't believe there is an economic reality to Sept. 11. It the stalemate is not resolved, Mesaba may look for new acquisitions or form a subsidiary to be operated under a separate certificate, similar to Mesa Air Group's proposed Freedom Air operation."

So in a sense, he's threatening that if we don't fly the proposed CRJ's for 35 bucks an hour, he'll find someone who will. And there IS ALWAYS someone who'd love to fly one for that. We won't, but I'm not sure what the answer is. We don't have much currently in the way of scope, but it is obviously needed.

Theoretically, it's easy to say, "let's just not let anyone fly one for less than 120 an hour", and in principle I agree. The harsh reality is that you just can't do that.

 

[HA25]

This is a good conversation, too bad I start a 6 day trip tomorrow. But I agree with both previous statements. I agree that there are always short sighted (maybe just family wealth types) pilots that will work for meager wages and drag down the profession that way, and I also agree that it is a good thing for regional pilot unions to fight for more pay, but I don't want them to fight for more RJ's and bigger RJ's. There is a difference in making a decent wage to fly feed, and taking mainline flying away from higher paid pilots.

There needs to be a unified ALPA/APA policy to this effect, and they need to expend lots of $$$ lobbying the powers that be for it.

Anyway, I think that the 9/11 factor is nothing more than a monkey wrench in the machine and will eventually (hopefully soon) be forgotten by the industry.