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Rivals invade Southwest's Airspace

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waveflyer said:
I'm sorry... Say that again?
There are slots that can ONLY be used for "RJ's"?

You're saying that the government tells delta that a particular slot can be used for a E-175, but not for an MD80?

Educate me please, prove that one
Click to expand...

That is correct. The 44 slots USair got from Delta for DCA were ex Comair slots that went to places like Columbus, OH. The LGA slots were originally Colgan slots to PVD, Elmira, Ithaca, etc. There were some USair mainline slots too that they used 733s to MCO, TPA etc that will now be used by DL mainline. There were some mainline slots that were divested because the Govt forced it after the swap.


Godspeed!


OYSter
 
waveflyer said:
I'm sorry... Say that again?
There are slots that can ONLY be used for "RJ's"?

You're saying that the government tells delta that a particular slot can be used for a E-175, but not for an MD80?

Educate me please, prove that one
Click to expand...

Wave, this is true, the original intent was originally the slots were for turboprops but as the turboprops were replaced, this happened. Original intent was for a/c that could use shorter runways, guess that got ruined as the airplanes grew! Our Gov. At it's finest!

Later,
KBB
 
On Your Six said:
I don't know if I've ever seen a cockier bunch, and they only fly 737s around to places like Cleveland and Omaha.
The OYSter
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Then you weren't around in the 80s and 90's when the DAL guys wouldn't even allow other airline crews into "their" hotel vans, not to mention jumpseats! Talk about cocky!


Oh, and DAL was nearly all domestic until the late 80's.
 
Tripower455 said:
Then you weren't around in the 80s and 90's when the DAL guys wouldn't even allow other airline crews into "their" hotel vans, not to mention jumpseats! Talk about cocky!


Oh, and DAL was nearly all domestic until the late 80's.
Click to expand...

80's and 90's? Don't forget 00 and 10's.

OYS is a sad little troll with either little man or BIG WOMAN syndrome. And the reason you don't fly to Omaha or Cleveland or Cincinnati or... is because it's all RJs.:laugh:
 
Dan Roman said:
I totally believe that competition has made the surviving airlines much better, it has created 1000's more airline pilot jobs than their would have been and MOST important, millions of people have traveled that would not have had a chance to if not for deregulation.
Click to expand...

Which is how we got passengers in sweats and flip-flops.
 
Ky.BrownBourbn said:
Wave, this is true, the original intent was originally the slots were for turboprops but as the turboprops were replaced, this happened. Original intent was for a/c that could use shorter runways, guess that got ruined as the airplanes grew! Our Gov. At it's finest!

Later,
KBB
Click to expand...

That's crazy-
What is the difference to ATC between a E175 and an MD88?
But let me get to the consequences- if delta cannot replace an "RJ" slot with a mainline slot- how can OYS and GL claim they're shrinking RJs? Cinci, ATL, and SLC I guess- but Delta literally cannot shrink it's RJ fleet in NYC without the government's permission? Seriously?
In a place that has slot control because it is so congested, an airline cannot use a LARGER aircraft that would carry more people?
Really?
Or can they use a larger aircraft as long as it's not flown by DALPA?
WTH, this industry....
 
waveflyer said:
That's crazy-
What is the difference to ATC between a E175 and an MD88?
But let me get to the consequences- if delta cannot replace an "RJ" slot with a mainline slot- how can OYS and GL claim they're shrinking RJs? Cinci, ATL, and SLC I guess- but Delta literally cannot shrink it's RJ fleet in NYC without the government's permission? Seriously?
In a place that has slot control because it is so congested, an airline cannot use a LARGER aircraft that would carry more people?
Really?
Or can they use a larger aircraft as long as it's not flown by DALPA?
WTH, this industry....
Click to expand...


Actually I believe the way it's written, you get 2 (or 3) RJ's for every Slot vs. One mainline A/C. And you wonder why there's a congestion problem!

Later,
KBB
 
waveflyer said:
That's crazy-
What is the difference to ATC between a E175 and an MD88?
But let me get to the consequences- if delta cannot replace an "RJ" slot with a mainline slot- how can OYS and GL claim they're shrinking RJs? Cinci, ATL, and SLC I guess- but Delta literally cannot shrink it's RJ fleet in NYC without the government's permission? Seriously?
In a place that has slot control because it is so congested, an airline cannot use a LARGER aircraft that would carry more people?
Really?
Or can they use a larger aircraft as long as it's not flown by DALPA?
WTH, this industry....
Click to expand...

Comair will be down to 44 total planes by next year. Pinnacle will probably dump a lot too here shortly, and there is a limit in 70/76 seaters. So, the RJ fleet is shrinking. As far as which planes fly where from LGA, some cities cannot support a mainline plane, like Bangor. There were a couple cities that I saw announced that even I raised an eyebrow, like DFW and IAH nonstop on E170s or CR9s, but I guess some service is better than none, and it mainly is a shot at two big competitors so they can't just set the price. Maybe we ran out of mainline slots at that point.


Godspeed!

The OYSter
 
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On Your Six said:
Comair will be down to 44 total planes by next year. Pinnacle will probably dump a lot too here shortly, and there is a limit in 70/76 seaters. So, the RJ fleet is shrinking. As far as which planes fly where from LGA, some cities cannot support a mainline plane, like Ithaca. There were a couple cities that I saw announced that even I raised an eyebrow, like DFW and IAH nonstop on E170s or CR9s, but I guess some service is better than none, and it mainly is a shot at two big competitors so they can't just set the price. Maybe we ran out of mainline slots at that point.


Godspeed!

The OYSter
Click to expand...

Out of the 100 new flights just announced, 19....that's right..19 are mainline aircraft. Obviously this can change, and hopefully does.

CD
 
I love how soon everyone forgets that "Rivals invade Southwest's Airspace" has been tried before with the same promises of lower cost due to this or different payscales for that all of which failed or don't you remember SONG/United shuttle.
 
bluesideup1 said:
I love how soon everyone forgets that "Rivals invade Southwest's Airspace" has been tried before with the same promises of lower cost due to this or different payscales for that all of which failed or don't you remember SONG/United shuttle.
Click to expand...

So why did DAL and UNICAL earnings outperform LUV expodentially this year? I'd love to hang my career hat on past performance but the "majors" used to do that before 9/11. How did that work out?
 
Swa

Of all of these comments how many of you actually use SWA as a customer ??

I fly weekly on SWA as a fare paying customer and no other airline offers a more flexible ticketing system with no penalties or changes. That saves me, or my clients, literally thousands of dollars. I changed one reservation 5 times before I finally departed. No problems and no charges. Every other airline would have screwed me.

As far as non assigned seats, you have to be a idiot not to get a window or aisle seat on any flight. Its just not that tough.

Waiting for February. Sorry to see AirTran go. AI Business class was the best value in the industry.

Contract Monkey
 
bluesideup1 said:
I love how soon everyone forgets that "Rivals invade Southwest's Airspace" has been tried before with the same promises of lower cost due to this or different payscales for that all of which failed or don't you remember SONG/United shuttle.
Click to expand...

Hummm....one very astute observation....even poignant....Through the government's bankruptcy "protection" system (Big Brother's got his arm around all of us), the legacies have been converted into Song, Shuttle by United, and Metrojet(...AMR is in the process), only this time it hasn't failed. It's been foisted upon legacy pilots, and most don't even realize that they are Song, Shuttle, and Metrojet. A pretty bittersweet dealio, wouldn't you say? :erm:
 
The Prussian said:
Hummm....one very astute observation....even poignant....Through the government's bankruptcy "protection" system (Big Brother's got his arm around all of us), the legacies have been converted into Song, Shuttle by United, and Metrojet(...AMR is in the process), only this time it hasn't failed. It's been foisted upon legacy pilots, and most don't even realize that they are Song, Shuttle, and Metrojet. A pretty bittersweet dealio, wouldn't you say? :erm:
Click to expand...

What's great is your company can be given the same opportunity to rebuild if you also go BK someday.


Godspeed!


The OYSter
 
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nimtz said:
When it comes to New York State air service see below.

http://schumer.senate.gov/new_website/record.cfm?id=313583
Click to expand...


And we wonder why the country is bankrupt. Thanks Chuckie for helping make the USA what it is. You know sometimes it just does not make $$ smart to fly an airplane to a piss ant town. 1 Hour drive to SYC and all the flights you need. Hell how long does it take to get from midtown DEN to the gate? Me thinks a hell of a lot longer than to drive to SYC and get to the gate.
 
Lets put it this way. Go to the internet both web sites (SWA and Delta) and "mock" buy a ticket. SLC-SEA is $5 less on Delta..... What would you do... My small business brother.... Delta...
 
I wouldn't be to worried about United. With their crackpot gumshoe management team they will just farm out any future domestic to 50-70 seaters and shrink mainline like they have always done. Always a follow the crowd type. They are unable to have an original thought.

They can't even cover the Dec schedule as is so we have Capt's picking up open time in the right seat. Mgt relies on this and the greedy, me me me guys love to help out. I was told "I have no pride It's all about the money son"

F this place.

Happy holidays!
 
Skybus said:
And we wonder why the country is bankrupt. Thanks Chuckie for helping make the USA what it is. You know sometimes it just does not make $$ smart to fly an airplane to a piss ant town. 1 Hour drive to SYC and all the flights you need. Hell how long does it take to get from midtown DEN to the gate? Me thinks a hell of a lot longer than to drive to SYC and get to the gate.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry- bur after reading the link- I don't see the problem

Just an anti-dem rant by you?

Should schumer not represent his constituency? Seems like you guys don't like the republic-


“Continental Airlines' decision to continue to fly from the Ithaca airport (ITH) is of enormous importance to our local business community,” said Jean McPheeters, President of Tompkins County Chamber of Commerce.***** “The combination of US Airways, Northwest and Continental brings connectivity to more than 200 cities across the world with one-stop service while keeping fares competitive. The business community here presented a strong business case to Continental for remaining in the community”

And kellner made a grown up business decision-

What if you owned a business in Ithica?
Btw- if DEN is your example of convenience, it's not a very good one- bc you're right- that place is a hike and I'm sure plenty of local O&D businesses would rather have the Stapleton location back-
DEN is only there to better serve as a HUB- one that continental pulled out of btw, due to costs-

Having convenient local service is a stimulus to the economy- the quicker pilots understand this the better-
We not only have cost pressures from a competitive industry- the macro puppet masters also know that cheap tickets get money flowing in a thousand different ways beneficial to the economy as a whole-
 
Skybus said:
And we wonder why the country is bankrupt. Thanks Chuckie for helping make the USA what it is. You know sometimes it just does not make $$ smart to fly an airplane to a piss ant town. 1 Hour drive to SYC and all the flights you need. Hell how long does it take to get from midtown DEN to the gate? Me thinks a hell of a lot longer than to drive to SYC and get to the gate.
Click to expand...
There is no way it's only a one hour drive from Ithaca to SYC. I'm willing to bet on it...
 
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Cut the dude some slack....I'm sure he meant SYR.

Speaking of slots, when was the last time anyone saw an RJ flying out of Heathrow?
 

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