Rival carriers will bid for ATA's Midway hub

[lowecur]

Did you happen to see anything in there about also giving us the right to pick up Lowecur at his house in a limo, Bob Fornacate driving, and Joe pouring his favorite New York State champagne to toast lowecur?
Just curious . . . .

Ah yes, the good life.

 

[ATA73Pilot]

I've just spent the last hour reading (adnausium) over the "Definitive Agreement" between AirTran and ATA....

1) It officially says that AirTran will give preferential interviews and hiring to "Chicago based mechanic, flight and in-flight crews" ...

Cheers

Can you point us to the location or source of this information? We pilots at ATA are playing the role of the mushroom in this little play. We have heard no such refrence to preferential interviews.

Thanks....

 

[lowecur]

here's the contract being presented as filed with SEC

Can you point us to the location or source of this information? We pilots at ATA are playing the role of the mushroom in this little play. We have heard no such refrence to preferential interviews.

Thanks....

.....http://secfilings.nasdaq.com/filingFrameset.asp?FileName=0000948846%2D04%2D00002 7%2Etxt&FilePath=%5C2004%5C11%5C18%5C&CoName=AIRTRAN+HOLDINGS+INC&FormType=8%2DK &RcvdDate=11%2F18%2F2004&pdf=

 

[mnboyev]

Big Bad Jet Blue.... I Predict....will not be coming back to ATL any time soon.. 190 or no 190.... Song will crush em..... Too many pretty lime green 757's laying around in front of the TOC to load on JB routes..

Big D is digging in... Nice interiors, nice FA's, nice .. nice... nice..... Service is the key boys and girls.... Unit cost, Service, Reliability, Frequency, and Safety..... The players that accomplishe this best will be winners.... We're in for a battle... The big boys are dumping their overhead and are coming after us little guys.... ALL the LCC's should 'get extra nice' and provide the best possible service at the lowest cost. Doing it and saying it are two different animals..!!!

 

[lowecur]

Big Bad Jet Blue.... I Predict....will not be coming back to ATL any time soon.. 190 or no 190.... Song will crush em..... Too many pretty lime green 757's laying around in front of the TOC to load on JB routes..

I Predict?....What are you some kind of an analcyst? This type of behavior is not allowed. As penance, you will have to fly with Ty and stay at his exclusive crashpad in Wichita. Nanananananananananana, Nunununununununununununu.

 

[TWA Dude]

Jetblue will make a very promising presentation to the city,...

Guess you know more than Neeleman?

link: http://www.indystar.com/articles/8/195385-3618-073.html

JetBlue not seeking ATA gates
Star report
November 17, 2004

JetBlue Airways Corp. denied a news service report today that it may bid on ATA Airlines Inc.'s Chicago Midway hub.
JetBlue, a discount airline based in Forest Hills, N.Y., said it may operate in Chicago someday but does not plan to make an offer in bankruptcy court for gates operated by bankrupt ATA.

"We'd probably get in the market," David Neeleman, JetBlue chief executive, told Bloomberg News. "We'll be in Chicago someday, and would move that up if something happened to ATA."

JetBlue spokesman Todd Burke later clarified the remark, saying the company will not make an offer while ATA is in bankruptcy.

Meanwhile, ATA announced today they have closed on $15 million in financing with the Indiana Transportation Finance Authority.

U.S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Basil Lorch III this morning is scheduled to consider setting a deadline later this fall for receiving bids in his Indianapolis courtroom for all or part of ATA. AirTran Holdings has sealed a $90 million agreement with ATA for the 14 Midway gates. America West also has shown interest in buying all of ATA.

ATA, based in Indianapolis, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization on Oct. 26. The airline intends to sell the Midway gates and regroup as a regional airline out of Indianapolis.

 

[Boeingman]

Originally Posted by Ty Webb
Did you happen to see anything in there about also giving us the right to pick up Lowecur at his house in a limo, Bob Fornacate driving, and Joe pouring his favorite New York State champagne to toast lowecur?
Just curious . . .

Ah yes, the good life.

Notice that in LowIQer's fantasy mentioned here, they are all men. Hmmmmm the good life?

 

[Ty Webb]

Can you point us to the location or source of this information? We pilots at ATA are playing the role of the mushroom in this little play. We have heard no such refrence to preferential interviews.

Thanks....

Page 35:

ARTICLE X ​

EMPLOYEE MATTERS ​

Without undertaking any obligation to hire any employee or group of employees of Sellers, to the extent practical and consistent with its hiring needs and standards, AirTran agrees to undertake good faith efforts to employ individual qualified existing employees of Sellers resident in Chicago as new employees of AirTran. In furtherance of and subject to the foregoing, AirTran (i) presently expects that at such time as all of its services and flight schedules from the

36 ​

Midway Gates are operated with its own aircraft the number of full and part-time jobs required to perform the airside and landside operations at the Midway Gates will be substantially the same as the number of such jobs in place as of the Execution Date, subject to normal seasonal adjustment; (ii) intends to make good faith efforts to itself, or through third party vendors, provide preferential hiring consideration for such jobs to current, active individual employees of Seller, resident in Chicago, presently working in such positions at Midway; (iii) expects that it will, and will endeavor to require any third party vendors to, make job applications and/or interviews available to current, active employees of Seller and conduct or cause to be conducted job fairs or other similar opportunities for applications to be made for such available positions; (iv) believes that the current work experience of such active employees of Seller will be an important consideration in evaluating all such employees; and (v) currently intends also to give preferential hiring consideration on the same basis set out above to current, actively employed Midway based mechanics, flight and in-flight personnel, resident in Chicago, for Chicago based mechanic, flight and in-flight positions. It is contemplated that, with respect to all such positions set out in the preceding sentences, preferential hiring consideration will continue for a period of one-year after the Execution Date.

 

[mnboyev]

Yeah.... analcyst.... Now I understand why folks are down on ya dude...... Get a life fella.

ATA gates, routes, and people are worth big dough... I think hard working Ol 'scrappy' AirTran would make a good showing up in the windy city... I predict... we will aquire most of ATA's bounty. Probably wont compete too much with SWA... I see they are adding flights to Norfolk.... etc... The saga will get interesting. I certainly hope we didnt take too big of a bite. AWA isnt going to show... no dough ! SWA will fight, however the city won't allow them to take the whole pot. That would drive ticket prices to 40 bucks.. up from 39.

Jet Blue... Too busy with developing their next cheerleading event to get involved in the MDW mix.... Just kidding JB guys... I pick up garbage too.

 

[lowecur]

Guess you know more than Neeleman?

That's right, they are making their presentation based on ATA forfeiting the gates. They have no interest in a cash bidding war. They want the gates only if it cost them $0. Why do you think AAI feels the need to offer cash and immediate employment of the 3200 workers? Cause they know they would stand zero chance of getting them by forfeiture.

JetBlue tells city it wants to land at Midway


Tribune staff reporter

November 18, 2004

JetBlue Airways is interested in moving into Midway Airport but doesn't want to get there by making a bid for parts of ATA Airlines.

The low-cost carrier has held discussions with Chicago aviation officials but likely will wait to see how service at Midway changes as ATA's bankruptcy is resolved, said spokesman Todd Burke.

A bidding war for ATA's 14 gates at Midway and other assets could be building. Several discount airlines have interest in some or all of ATA.

ATA has a tentative deal to sell its rights to the gates to AirTran Airways, while Southwest Airlines and America West Airlines have asked the city about the possibility of obtaining ATA's gates.

Burke said JetBlue thinks it can enter the market without taking part in that fight.

"We are not planning to bid on those assets," he said. "We feel we can have gates available from the City of Chicago."

New York City-based JetBlue long has made clear it preferred serving O'Hare Airport, but no gates are available nor likely to open up. Midway has emerged as an attractive alternative, prompting JetBlue to approach Chicago aviation officials recently about possibilities there, Burke said.

Those conversations took place prior to ATA entering Chapter 11 protection last month, he added.

JetBlue serves the eastern, southwest and western sections of the country, but its jets fly over the Midwest. Gates at Midway would change that.

Founded in 2000, JetBlue's fortunes rose quickly, and it has become a favorite airline for many travelers.

That hasn't helped it escape the same troubles dragging down the earnings of nearly all its competitors, even though JetBlue remains financially strong. Profit was down in the third quarter, but the airline has not suffered the continuous series of quarterly losses other carriers have experienced.

JetBlue has been hurt by high fuel costs. It also was among the carriers most affected by the Florida hurricanes.

The airline would like to be in Chicago, John Owen, JetBlue chief financial officer told analysts during a meeting Monday in New York.

"We've been actually watching the whole AirTran and ATA situation at Chicago Midway with interest," Owen said.

"I still can't claim I fully understand what all is going on with that bankruptcy, because it would appear ATA is trying to sell something they don't own, but that's another story.".

In October, ATA reached a $90 million deal with AirTran that would give that Orlando-based airline the Midway gates and landing rights at New York's LaGuardia Airport and Washington, D.C.'s Reagan National Airport.

The deal includes $7 million to pay off debts ATA owes the City of Chicago.

Any deal to sell ATA's assets must be approved by the bankruptcy court in Indianapolis, where ATA filed for Chapter 11. Chicago's Aviation Department has the last word on which airlines get access to Midway.

It's unclear which gates JetBlue believes it might have access to. Midway has 43 gates--19 controlled by Southwest Airlines and 14 by ATA. Smaller airlines have five, and the remaining five are common-use gates shared by numerous airlines.

 

[FLB717]

Lowecur,
For a analist wana be look a little closer my electonic media friend and you will notice that we are not pullling any flights, or service from ATL. The growth in MDW or other parts will shift the % of flight that fly from ATL from 70% to 55% based on increased flights at other locations, not a reduction in ATL. So no you will not see gates opening for JBLU based on a reduction of AAI flying.

 

[ATA73Pilot]

Thanks...that's more info then we are receiving.

As best as I can figure...the best some of us can hope for w/ AAI is an interview with consideration given to previous experience.

 

[lowecur]

Lowecur,
For a analist wana be look a little closer my electonic media friend and you will notice that we are not pullling any flights, or service from ATL. The growth in MDW or other parts will shift the % of flight that fly from ATL from 70% to 55% based on increased flights at other locations, not a reduction in ATL. So no you will not see gates opening for JBLU based on a reduction of AAI flying.

Sorry FLB, I don't buy that logic. There just won't be enough a/c to build MDW up and keep ATL as busy.

 

[Ty Webb]

We'll go slowly for you here, LowIQer . . . .. That's . . why . . . we're doing . . . the . . . . wet . . . . lease . . . deal. So we don't . . . have to reduce service other than the normal Q1 reduction.

That is also why we are upping the number of aircraft deliveries in 2005 to 21.

I don't doubt that we will reduce some underperforming routes, but that doesn't mean less ATL flying or gate usage. I don;t think you'll see other aircraft in the south part of Concourse C.

Besides, JB left ATL not because of gate problems, but they couldn't make any money competing against Delta AND AirTran (our LAX subservice thru Ryan was a curve they hadn't anticipated).

Now, I know this doesn't do anything for your EMB stock, but that's life. Guess you'll have to just get out there and sell some more insurance.

 

[jetblue320]

Besides, JB left ATL not because of gate problems, but they couldn't make any money competing against Delta AND AirTran (our LAX subservice thru Ryan was a curve they hadn't anticipated).

Ty,

Not trying to flame you (I read and enjoy your posts) but that statement is not correct. Honestly, I won't argue with you about JB in ATL but I will tell you that is not the reason we left. We were making money on our limited routes from ATL. The fact is, we could make more money and better utilize the aircraft elsewhere.

Was ATL a mistake for JB? Well, I guess it depends on who you ask. And yes, you guys going out and subbing Ryan was indeed a curveball but consider this; maybe that was money ya'll didn't have to spend so in a way, we forced you to dip into your pocketbook, and then split leaving you to pay the tab. Some might argue that that was a smart move on OUR part???

I dunno.

Anyway, have a good one.

 

[FLB717]

Lowecur,
Dude I respect your views but on this one you need to sell more policies and leave theve the running of airlines to those who can. You are way off on this one, if it turns out your right I will make a very public retraction. But I feel very safe on that.

jetblue320,
Did you make money in ATL, yeah some. Was it a large return on your investment, no. You guys did the right thing to go to other cities with that aircraft but I doubt it could be spun as a win. We to have entered a market and found that is was not sustainable, and so you and we leave.

 

[jetblue320]

jetblue320,
Did you make money in ATL, yeah some. Was it a large return on your investment, no. You guys did the right thing to go to other cities with that aircraft but I doubt it could be spun as a win. We to have entered a market and found that is was not sustainable, and so you and we leave.

Roger that, I wasn't trying to spin it as a win. I was only commenting on Ty's statement that we couldn't make money against Airtran & DL. The proof was in the pudding, we could and we did make money plain and simple. Well, maybe not simple!

Take care.

 

[Pickle]

Regarding the excerpt that Ty Webb put up about the agreement between ATA and Air Tran, note that it says "resident if Chicago." That seems to be to appease Daley. I am sure that he does not care about, nor will this part pertain to, those of us in the "815", or anywhere else around Chicago but mot "Chicago" proper. Really, how many of the ATA pilot group actually live IN Chicago.... I can think of 4r or 5 off the top of my head, but most in the area are in the 'burbs.

 

[lowecur]

Besides, JB left ATL not because of gate problems, but they couldn't make any money competing against Delta AND AirTran (our LAX subservice thru Ryan was a curve they hadn't anticipated).

Now, I know this doesn't do anything for your EMB stock, but that's life. Guess you'll have to just get out there and sell some more insurance.

Yesterday's news, Ty. When Jetblue goes into ATL it will be to go after AAI on their bread and butter routes, not the long haul. If gates are a problem in 2006, then DFW will due just fine until more open up. You start out slow like Southwest did in PHL, and then you slowly grow. The Jetblue 190 could very well put AirTran out of business in the next 5 years. It's a good thing you know how to make a living outside the airline business.

Nnanananananananananananana, Nunununununununununununu.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

The Jetblue 190 could very well put AirTran out of business in the next 5 years.

The EMB190 won't LAST 5 years. Embraer makes, without ANY doubt whatsoever, the cheapest, flimsiest transport aircraft that have ever flown. Take it from someone that KNOWS. Not someone dreaming from behind some computer screen. These aircraft are simply throw-away pieces of crap.

The only thing they will "put of of business" are the companies that operate them and the fools "stoopid" enough to invest in them.