RIP to the 'Southwest effect'?

[Flopgut]

Do you think airlines would still have a "pension plan" if SWA had gone belly up in the 80's.

Yes. Absolutely. Not a doubt in my mind.

 

[Flopgut]

What's the deal with 9/11?

Unbelievable. Becoming a United pilot by way of merger has been an eye opening experience. United and American took the direct hit simply because if the company's names. United deserved an ATSB LOAN. If darling SWA had needed a loan Uncle Sam would have emptied the account. The govt would have preferred united cease flying.

 

[waveflyer]

That last quote is the first good thing you've said in a while
United absolutely deserved an atsb loan guarantee (they were not loans)- and you're probably right about SWA since just about every airline got one that asked except united
But why the constant obsession with SWA? It's just weird at this point

 

[canyonblue]

The govt would have preferred united cease flying.

No, just the traveling public.

 

[Flopgut]

They may have been a bad thing for you Flop, but it worked out unbelievably well for those early guys at SW. Did they making lower wages than the rest of the industry? Absolutely. But they completely cleaned up on Profit Sharing and Stock Options, that were added on top of the 401k contributions. Meanwhile, your management was underfunding your pension until they had the opportunity to completely delete it in bankruptcy court.

So the major difference here was great management as SW, and horrible management at most of the other airlines. All the early SW guys retired multi-millionaires because they .......didn't have a pension.

Ok, so if Im looking for a flying job sometime (pretty sure I'll do something [anything] else at this point) I'm going to want to go someplace that's straight up competing with you. And if they pay 50% on the dollar of what you make, and that starts to mess up your sweet deal, you better not have a problem with it, right Red?

 

[waveflyer]

Um usair was basically doing that for the last decade flop... And all of your regionals for much less... Time to get off this weird trip man

 

[canyonblue]

Ok, so if Im looking for a flying job sometime (pretty sure I'll do something [anything] else at this point) I'm going to want to go someplace that's straight up competing with you. And if they pay 50% on the dollar of what you make, and that starts to mess up your sweet deal, you better not have a problem with it, right Red?

Don't you already work for less than a Southwest pilot? Your hyprocracy shows no bounds, yet you won't see me complain on the pay of another industry pilot. You just help management with their sham that pilot pay makes or breaks an airline.

 

[Flopgut]

That last quote is the first good thing you've said in a while
United absolutely deserved an atsb loan guarantee (they were not loans)- and you're probably right about SWA since just about every airline got one that asked except united
But why the constant obsession with SWA? It's just weird at this point

Bob Crandall wrote an article about 20 years ago called "California Pricing". In it he described how Continental lite or United Shuttle type ops were failed prospects. That a company could show a segment that would be healthy/profitable but that there was no point to it when it would not be sufficient to raise the mortgage on the entire company. (It's different than the East Coast shuttle)

That's kind of like what we have going on in this Country with our profession/industry. There is basically one healthy part [Swa] that is rallied for (or who is dealt cards off the bottom of the deck for IMO) while the rest of US carriers are left to die. It's not healthy for the industry or the Country. It looks good to have one airline doing so well. But the US couldn't run this economy off SWA only. I'm guessing about 25 years from now US airlines will look like US shipping, and our jobs will be gone. I think then we will look back and question the wisdom of deregulation. Or if Harding Lawrence [Braniff] was right and it would ultimately fail. That fork in the road put Braniff out of business and made SWA what it is today.

 

[slaquer5]

Ok, so if Im looking for a flying job sometime (pretty sure I'll do something [anything] else at this point) I'm going to want to go someplace that's straight up competing with you. And if they pay 50% on the dollar of what you make, and that starts to mess up your sweet deal, you better not have a problem with it, right Red?

Do you even believe what you write . Complete crazy talk . I hope you write this to try and upset a few .

If not you have some major mental issues .

 

[Flopgut]

Don't you already work for less than a Southwest pilot? Your hyprocracy shows no bounds, yet you won't see me complain on the pay of another industry pilot. You just help management with their sham that pilot pay makes or breaks an airline.

I probably do, but I would want to only make about half what you do. And pay for my training. You know, do it just like SWA did back in the day Then, decades later when it's super successful, I'll get on a web board and read how all the young guys beat their chests and try to re write history like Bubba does

Seriously, I don't even want to fly that much at all anymore.