Right seat captain stories

[Axel]

I had been a CA for 10-15 years, both Corp and 121, but was new to the 145. On this trip I got a reserve FO about 6 months total in the industry since graduating from one of the more prominent university aviation degree programs.

He was annoyed. For the full 1 1/2 hours enroute I was regaled with his opinion that the seat assignment should be based on education and time in type rather than total experience and seniority. It was clear he felt that each of us was in the incorrect seat. He was, in equal measures, uncooperative and petulant.

He was FP. On final to a southeastern airport, tower told us "cleared to land, wind calm." We had a significant wind correction angle on final and the FMS wind vector showed a 20 knot direct right crosswind. At about 500 feet the wind was still there so I asked for a wind check. Calm. I repeated to the FO "Calm wind on the surface," to which he replied with a sigh.

At about 50 feet the wind died. There was some turbulence which caught him by surprise and after about 2 seconds of wrestling we ended up at 10 feet over the runway with the same heading we had on final, but now in calm wind.

I allowed this to continue until we were about 1/2 way between the centerline and the edge, then commented "Runway is over here." He slapped it down hard, swerved back to the correct heading hard enough to make things rattle in the galley and then did nothing else.

"2000 feet remaining." He slammed on the brakes trying for the next turnoff and was slowing through 60 as we shot by it. I took the tiller and we turned off at the end of a 9000 foot runway.

I did not say anything other than "That thing with the wind is common in this part of the country." He did not have much to say on the return leg.

 

[fowingman]

Space Cowboy i agree with what you are saying with regard to hearing and not listening... i have noticed most responses are geared towards the captain being causing/allowing, the right seat captain idea to happen... while i agree with that, there are still times when the person already feels as if they are the captain and nothing is going to change that.. i was looking forward to humor stories of unbelievable arrogance... but where the threads have gone in the past 15 posts or so are important as well.

 

[Abernathy]

I did not say anything other than "That thing with the wind is common in this part of the country." He did not have much to say on the return leg.

That's probably the best way to handle those types. You didn't have to say much, but made him feel like a jackas s.

 

[vectorvictor]

Also a captain can go a long way towards preventing the "right seat captain" phenomona by paying attention and ensuring there is a captain in the left seat. If there's a massive leadership vacuum somebody will fill it eventually.

Sitting there in cruise, with a lousy routing in front of us, at our filed FL but well below our optimum, seatbelts and engine anti-ice on in severe clear, glass smooth air, USAToday in the up an locked position. Ya just think to yourself 'Jesus', where do I begin.

Or, I remember the appalled look on this Captains face when he discovered I'd helped myself to the brakes while we were taxiing. He's got this look of shock, why aren't you letting me move? Well get off your cellphone, dooshbag, and I'll explain the hold short clearance we just received and repeated for you but you didn't hear or understand.

Anyway, like I said, a leadership vacuum will be filled, and it might not be elegant.

Be it known I don't taxi around talking on my cell phone. But at that point I would BREAK both of your legs.

 

[vectorvictor]

Space Cowboy i agree with what you are saying with regard to hearing and not listening... i have noticed most responses are geared towards the captain being causing/allowing, the right seat captain idea to happen... while i agree with that, there are still times when the person already feels as if they are the captain and nothing is going to change that.. i was looking forward to humor stories of unbelievable arrogance... but where the threads have gone in the past 15 posts or so are important as well.

To a certain extent, allowing right seat folks to make decisions is part of our job. With good FO's I usually let them run the show the way they want to. I hand them the signed release after I take a peek at it and pretty much let them run with the ball. The good ones with good leadership skills will respect you for allowing them to learn , make good decisions, and ask your opinion on a lot of stuff. When the $hit hits the fan or they fall behind you have to be on it to make the right decisions but for the most part it makes your life easier and gives them a chance to learn to make good decisions. More importantly it teaches them to learn to respect their own authority and the people working for them. Leadership isn't getting people to work hard its working harder than all the other people.

One other thing. I always try to save their face. If I have to overrule a decision or suggest another path I try and save their ego. I know at some point in my career I'll screw up and maybe they'll look out for me in return.

That being said..I agree...some just have to be schooled. Some CFI, Mother, or School Teacher, early in their career missed that all important step

 

[brian041102]

To a certain extent, allowing right seat folks to make decisions is part of our job. With good FO's I usually let them run the show the way they want to. I hand them the signed release after I take a peek at it and pretty much let them run with the ball. The good ones with good leadership skills will respect you for allowing them to learn , make good decisions, and ask your opinion on a lot of stuff. When the $hit hits the fan or they fall behind you have to be on it to make the right decisions but for the most part it makes your life easier and gives them a chance to learn to make good decisions. More importantly it teaches them to learn to respect their own authority and the people working for them. Leadership isn't getting people to work hard its working harder than all the other people.

One other thing. I always try to save their face. If I have to overrule a decision or suggest another path I try and save their ego. I know at some point in my career I'll screw up and maybe they'll look out for me in return.

That being said..I agree...some just have to be schooled. Some CFI, Mother, or School Teacher, early in their career missed that all important step

Very well said!

 

[fowingman]

very well said...

I, a lot of times, will ask my f.o what he thinks about the radar as we look at it in the crew room. if they say
i've not looked at it yet, or
they give their opinion...... kudos.
but if they say

"i dont know"

then i'm not very confident in their abilities to think for them selves.

 

[flyboyike]

Also a captain can go a long way towards preventing the "right seat captain" phenomena by paying attention and ensuring there is a captain in the left seat. If there's a massive leadership vacuum somebody will fill it eventually.

Very true.

 

[Raskal]

To a certain extent, allowing right seat folks to make decisions is part of our job. With good FO's I usually let them run the show the way they want to. I hand them the signed release after I take a peek at it and pretty much let them run with the ball. The good ones with good leadership skills will respect you for allowing them to learn , make good decisions, and ask your opinion on a lot of stuff. When the $hit hits the fan or they fall behind you have to be on it to make the right decisions but for the most part it makes your life easier and gives them a chance to learn to make good decisions. More importantly it teaches them to learn to respect their own authority and the people working for them.
Leadership isn't getting people to work hard its working harder than all the other people.

One other thing. I always try to save their face. If I have to overrule a decision or suggest another path I try and save their ego. I know at some point in my career I'll screw up and maybe they'll look out for me in return.

That being said..I agree...some just have to be schooled. Some CFI, Mother, or School Teacher, early in their career missed that all important step

As others wrote, well said. Putting fo's 'in their place' is only a small percentage (or at least I hope so) of a captain's responsibility. It is also to teach and allow them to learn what's required to sit in your seat. If all they ever see is a capt telling them to shut up and 'respect' the authority then that is what they'll become when they upgrade.

When it's their leg or sometimes mine I, like someone else wrote, also use the radar and will ask what they think we should do. Unfortunately XJ has really good training in lots of areas but they fail miserably at teaching radar usage-about 98% of fo's I fly with, through no fault of their own, haven't the slightest idea what the hell they're looking at (though many act as though they do). I've watched them try and avoid more ground returns and flat out missed weather more times than not.

All that being said, there are those times when the situation has gone from annoying to intolerable and one needs to have the 'here's how it's gonna be' speech. Thankfully, maybe I'm just lucky, I've rarely run into that.

Getting on the brakes during taxi...??? I don't know about that one...

 

[lindsaya99]

Be it known I don't taxi around talking on my cell phone. But at that point I would BREAK both of your legs.

I'm probably alive today because I did that. Captain's response after realizing I keep him from taxing into the path of a landing MD-80, "Oh, I would have caught that." *Sigh* You're welcome.

 

[Grey Ghost]

OK I'm bored today so I'll post first

been a captain at my former regional on the RJ (200 and 700) for about 8 months, was also an fo in the plane so I Had about 3000 hours in the plane. Flew with a mid-level seniority fo who really thought she was awesome. since she had been there for over a year decided to give her the first leg, on the decent she proceeded to lecture me on how to land the 700 (the kick-out method one main than the other) I said ok whatever that's pretty much how I do it any way. As she talks her way through the landing (like i was a student and she was a CFI) she proceeded to slam it on so hard i thought the mains were gonna come up through the wings. Now I'll be the first to admit i had my share of "firm" landings in that thing, But just had to laugh as she made such a big deal on how to land the thing.

Does she go by the name, Netters?

 

[vectorvictor]

I'm probably alive today because I did that. Captain's response after realizing I keep him from taxing into the path of a landing MD-80, "Oh, I would have caught that." *Sigh* You're welcome.

It those were the circumstances I would have bought you lunch and a lot of brews. Time and place for everything. In that case you did your job...you didn't try and prove a point. It falls into the category of "those who have, and those who will." The real trick as a good captain is promoting a work environment that keeps a sense of who's in charge and promotes free communication.

 

[brian041102]

Its sad to say but there are some people that lack the leadership skills to be a captain. One of the Fo's job is trying to figure out the guy or girl in the left seat. There are a select few that I have flown with that couldn't make a decision about anything or were very unsafe. Its hard for captains to figure out if the fo is a confident pilot who isn't going to kill them. With that being said some captains micromanage from the start because the last fo they flew with sucked.

 

[BigPappa]

Mr, Ms or Mrs FO,
That job is not for you to decide who has leadership or not, let the training department decide that. Your time to prove yourself will come during your upgrade (if it is not there yet). Now just do the job that is expected of you, evaluating the captain and second guessing him/her is not your job! Remember you are NOT in the training department. Don't become one of those arrogant FOs that every pilot talks about. Had one last week, all this individual could talk about was how he was not getting along with "I counted" eight captains in his conversation (less than 1.5 year seniority). If you can't get along with more than two captains and you've been there a that long, I find you might have some issues.

 

[brian041102]

Mr, Ms or Mrs FO,
That job is not for you to decide who has leadership or not, let the training department decide that. Your time to prove yourself will come during your upgrade (if it is not there yet). Now just do the job that is expected of you, evaluating the captain and second guessing him/her is not your job! Remember you are NOT in the training department. Don't become one of those arrogant FOs that every pilot talks about. Had one last week, all this individual could talk about was how he was not getting along with "I counted" eight captains in his conversation (less than 1.5 year seniority). If you can't get along with more than two captains and you've been there a that long, I find you might have some issues.

It is every crew members job to make sure the flight is completed safely. When did the captain become god and never make a mistake. Its not the 60's anymore. Just because the training dept put them in the left seat doesn't make them an all around good captain. Captains complain about Fo's but last I checked the "training dept" put them in the seat. Point is everybody makes mistakes and if the do someone should speak up before we become a smoking hole in the ground.