Revised DAL Biz Plan?

[General Lee]

Replace our fleet? We have the youngest international fleet of any North American airline and the youngest trans-atlantic fleet of any North American OR European airline. Our average fleet age, even with DC9's included is about 4 years older than DAL's.

Does DAL have the cash to replace it's aging 767 fleet?

As for the JP Morgan thing, perhaps in the future you could refrain from using analysts who admit that their numbers are not "based in reality".

We got rid of our "old" 767s---the 767-200s went to ABX. Our "newer" 767s are getting winglets on them and crew quarters for longer flights. And, when your 742s go away, I have heard some of the 767-300ERs could get cargo doors and go to ANC. You will be seeing those 767s for a LONG time to come, a lot longer than those DC9s.

And I LOVE your comment about NWA having the "youngest" transatlantic fleet for ANY airline. I think Virgin, Air France, KLM, and Lufthansa would disagree, but you do know it all.........(also Emirates does fly only very very new 777s across the Atlantic from Dubai, but that doesn't count...) Across the Atlantic, you are a small player overall. You go to a total of 6 cities across the pond, including Mumbai (not in Europe). I wouldn't be bragging about it. (we don't brag about Asia either) But together, we will be a monster....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

There is already a NWA museum near the airport in MSP. It's over near the mall of america.

That's the NWA terminal at MSP where all the 9's are parked, right? ZING!!!

 

[Superpilot92]

That's the NWA terminal at MSP where all the 9's are parked, right? ZING!!!

Kinda like the CVG terminal where all the 737-200's are, oh wait those are gone and now are RJ's. ZING!!!

Better GL?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Kinda like the CVG terminal where all the 737-200's and -300's are, oh wait those are gone and now are RJ's. ZING!!!

yadda yadda yadda, haha.

 

[General Lee]

Kinda like the CVG terminal where all the 737-200's and -300's are, oh wait those are gone and now are RJ's. ZING!!!

We never had 737-300s in CVG. Get your ZINGS right at least.....come on.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

We never had 737-300s in CVG. Get your ZINGS right at least.....come on.

Bye Bye--General Lee

It was a joke toward peanuckle. All in good fun until you came in and buzzkilled it.

 

[Papa Woody]

The NWA merger is a piggy bank they want to suck dry to help weather the storm,

Hearing rumblings the whole merger may in fact be in jeopardy.

Exactly.

Plus, the employees aren't exactly buying the "rosy picture" BS they're pumping out of all the propaganda channels.

Cuts are coming and everyone knows it.

Morale sucks, and as a result, customer service totally blows.

The other day I witnessed a DL gate agent throw a ghetto-style fit at a customer, and it almost turned into a race war on concourse B. No joke.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree that there will probably be cuts. About two days after DCC. Not sure if they will furlough though. It costs about 5 million a month to keep all of the new hires on property. It would cost a lot more than that to kick them out the door and bring them back in a year. Now if they stop the 777 deliveries we are screwed. Expect massive layoffs if that happens.
I would expect to see an offer of voluntary LOA's first.

 

[dtfl]

Sorry, you're wrong. Your 12.4 year number includes your RJ fleet. It's all available in 2007's 10k forms for both airlines and DAL's breaks out the numbers with and without your RJ's. Apples to Oranges.I've posted it all before. You can do a search for it.

Fins:

There is already a NWA museum near the airport in MSP. It's over near the mall of america.

Oh Im so sorry...evidently you and Mr NWAREDtail have all the answers, from your wonderful posts. I just cant WAIT to fly with you.....

I just posted a Forbes article. Take it up with Malcomb if the #s don't jive, according to your research.

 

[Superpilot92]

I agree that there will probably be cuts. About two days after DCC. Not sure if they will furlough though. It costs about 5 million a month to keep all of the new hires on property. It would cost a lot more than that to kick them out the door and bring them back in a year. Now if they stop the 777 deliveries we are screwed. Expect massive layoffs if that happens.
I would expect to see an offer of voluntary LOA's first.

Dont forget the cost associated with furloughing and retraining everyone at compass and mesaba while also furloughing people from Compass that get flushed from the bottom. Any furloughs *should* be short lived with the new aircraft coming to both sides. That should hopefully be enough deterrence to furloughing on a whim.

 

[jester757]

Here is the skinny...from the souce as it were...

DAL is still pushing ahead for the purchase of NWA> yes, DAL is buying NWA... not a merger, not that it matters in the end. In fact the date of corp. closing has been pushed up...way up. They want to have it done by the end of the fall...prior to November. Two more bids to come out for 777s by years end...any vacancies caused will not be back filled. In the fall there will be SILs offered for about 55hours of pay, ALV will drop to the low 70s...BUT there should be NO FURLOUGHS at DAL (as of today that is...)

Also, plans do not include parking all of the nines. There are plans to park some/all of the freighters.

How do I know...well there was a large group of NWA folks down at DAL today who were there to work out some aspects of the merger. Amazing how nice they all were and that they were willing to spill the beans.

 

[General Lee]

Here is the skinny...from the souce as it were...

DAL is still pushing ahead for the purchase of NWA> yes, DAL is buying NWA... not a merger, not that it matters in the end. In fact the date of corp. closing has been pushed up...way up. They want to have it done by the end of the fall...prior to November. Two more bids to come out for 777s by years end...any vacancies caused will not be back filled. In the fall there will be SILs offered for about 55hours of pay, ALV will drop to the low 70s...BUT there should be NO FURLOUGHS at DAL (as of today that is...)

Also, plans do not include parking all of the nines. There are plans to park some/all of the freighters.

How do I know...well there was a large group of NWA folks down at DAL today who were there to work out some aspects of the merger. Amazing how nice they all were and that they were willing to spill the beans.

I bet they will place a few 767ERs into ANC with cargo doors to fly some of those valuable Asian cargo slots.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Fly4hire]

DAL is still pushing ahead for the purchase of NWA> yes, DAL is buying NWA... not a merger, not that it matters in the end.

Then why mention it? DAL Inc. may be buying NWA Inc., but is still a merger of operations and a merger of pilot groups......

 

[~~~^~~~]

There are a lot of NWA folks wondering around. Crew Scheduling says they have already held meetings with NWA's people and have been told "not to hold anything back." They are doing a top to bottom look at what works best.

I hope the NWA pilots get on board with the culture here at Delta. It is a good place to work.

 

[Fly4hire]

I hope the NWA pilots get on board with the culture here at Delta. It is a good place to work.

Real easy - start treating us like a real part of the family instead of telling us to go to the back of the bus. Or is the culture you are the plantation owners and we should be happy for such a nice place to be enslaved?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Real easy - start treating us like a real part of the family instead of telling us to go to the back of the bus. Or is the culture you are the plantation owners and we should be happy for such a nice place to be enslaved?

Who's putting you at the back of the bus? I have yet to meet one person (real person.. not on a web forum spouting koolaid) or know of one person who wants anyone at the back of a bus.


Step away from the kool-aid... you're one of the biggest drinkers on the forum.

 

[Superpilot92]

Who's putting you at the back of the bus? I have yet to meet one person (real person.. not on a web forum spouting koolaid) or know of one person who wants anyone at the back of a bus.


Step away from the kool-aid... you're one of the biggest drinkers on the forum.

I will put it a little better than he did, alot of NWA people are NOT happy that DAL mgmt has said they want to gradually bring NWA pilots up to DAL rates and "harmonize" everything. That will not "harmonize" anything and hopefully DAL mgmt knows the NWA pilot group is no pushover group especially at this point. The majority of the NWA group wants a joint contract and a joint SLI even if that means expedited arbitration of the SLI. Nothing beneficial can come out of further dividing the groups and thats exactly what this "harmonization" idea does. I have no doubt if DAL mgmt gets off this "harmonization" crap that we can move forward very quickly and getter dun. :beer: We can all agree we want a successful combined company out of this and i for one look forward to working with all you DAL guys/gals.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I would venture to guess that you will see the DOJ get this thing approved well before the election.
No furloughs, but how many voluntary LOA's?

 

[Fly4hire]

Who's putting you at the back of the bus? I have yet to meet one person (real person.. not on a web forum spouting koolaid) or know of one person who wants anyone at the back of a bus.


Step away from the kool-aid... you're one of the biggest drinkers on the forum.

Harmonization of our contract with DAL over several years is another word for B-scale.

No spin, no kool-aid, thats what DAL management wants.

If we aren't treated equally as one group, we won't function equally as one group.

You want us to get aboard the train, become part of the culture - kinda of self defeating when you are working under separate contracts (not even talking SLI issues)

For saying they want to avoid a US Airways type debacle they sure seem to be making the same mistakes....

 

[DTW320]

Oh Im so sorry...evidently you and Mr NWAREDtail have all the answers, from your wonderful posts. I just cant WAIT to fly with you.....

I just posted a Forbes article. Take it up with Malcomb if the #s don't jive, according to your research.

Actually, you added some of your own editorial comment:

Without the 9s you have a young fleet. With them - there is a 5 yr spread.

I pointed out that it was incorrect.

You seem pretty defensive. Good luck with that.

 

[DTW320]

We got rid of our "old" 767s---the 767-200s went to ABX. Our "newer" 767s are getting winglets on them and crew quarters for longer flights. And, when your 742s go away, I have heard some of the 767-300ERs could get cargo doors and go to ANC. You will be seeing those 767s for a LONG time to come, a lot longer than those DC9s.

And I LOVE your comment about NWA having the "youngest" transatlantic fleet for ANY airline. I think Virgin, Air France, KLM, and Lufthansa would disagree, but you do know it all.........(also Emirates does fly only very very new 777s across the Atlantic from Dubai, but that doesn't count...) Across the Atlantic, you are a small player overall. You go to a total of 6 cities across the pond, including Mumbai (not in Europe). I wouldn't be bragging about Europe. (we don't brag about Asia either)


Bye Bye--General Lee

Wow. For someone who posted the same reply 3 times (going for 12000 posts the easy way huh?) you should at least work on your reading comprehension. I didn't say ANY airline. I said any North American or European airline. I would think a big bad 767ER pilot would understand that there is more to the world than N. America and Europe. My bad. Across the Atlantic NWA has the youngest fleet. Thats a fact that you can look up.

Virgin, Air France, KLM, and Lufthansa would disagree, but you do know it all..

Thanks. Our 330 fleet is younger than the trans atlantic a/c of all the airlines you mention above. You could look it up and post it 3 times if you like.

Thanks for jumping into a simple exchange about NWA having the youngest intl fleet of any N. American airline, a simple verifiable fact, with info about your winglets, crew quarters and cargo doors on your old 767's.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I think that many are misinformed. I know of no pilot here on the DAL property that wants to have you brought up to our scale over a period of time. That causes a lot of issues. More than just upsetting you guys.
We want parity and we want it now. Problem is that we will not sell out seniority to do it. As you will not either. By virtue of that issues, we may have no other choice than to have two contracts until the SLI is done.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Or is the culture you are the plantation owners and we should be happy for such a nice place to be enslaved?

Our Masters are the customers. We serve each other to accomplish the mission. Slavery? It is a lot better place than I've ever worked prior to coming here.

You should be saying:

"Gimme my 40% more gritz, Dummy - Thank You - Slurp"

...although that movie reference may be before your time.

I do not understand why you are sulking & making rude comments about Delta. Your MEC demanded the contract without an SLI agreement and it looks like they are getting their demands met, with the help of the Delta MEC.

Like ACL65 wrote, every Delta pilot I know wants NWA at parity as soon as the transaction takes place. Probably will be November, or December.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Fin,
At the latest Nov. or Dec. There is a lot of pressure in D.C. to get this done ASAP and sooner if possible. Most of the anti-trust issues are dealt with. The only issue left is how many MKE gates we are going to have to give up. I would guess we will keep terminal D(Midex gates) and C(DAL) and give up the NWA stuff. It is old and is the only terminal up there that has not been redone. As soon as that is done, we will have our rubber stamp.
When we get DCC we will get to see if RA has been honest with us, or if he is a wolf in a sheep's clothing. It the latter is true, you and I my friend will be going to our new employer. (Probably for five to seven years at a min. )

 

[Superpilot92]

I think that many are misinformed. I know of no pilot here on the DAL property that wants to have you brought up to our scale over a period of time. That causes a lot of issues. More than just upsetting you guys.
We want parity and we want it now. Problem is that we will not sell out seniority to do it. As you will not either. By virtue of that issues, we may have no other choice than to have two contracts until the SLI is done.

Its not misinformation and its not DAL pilots we are talking about, thats what your mgmt team is telling our mec. Thats why you are hearing it from us.

 

[Fly4hire]

Your MEC demanded the contract without an SLI agreement and it looks like they are getting their demands met, with the help of the Delta MEC.

Like ACL65 wrote, every Delta pilot I know wants NWA at parity as soon as the transaction takes place. Probably will be November, or December.

Let's make one thing very clear here - getting contract parity now is a prerequisite to moving further - it is not in lieu of SLI later. 1st base before you go to 2nd.....

It is counter productive for you to insinuate or infer that because we are doing a contract now that it is somehow in exchange for SLI later - that will take us right back to the Feb impasse and arbitration. I sincerely hope this is not the position DALPA is communicating to the membership.

We could have worked toward both together, but now have to react to the LOA 19 sell out to be on a level playing field. To suggest the DAL "helped" us is nonsense, and then to insinuate we somehow waived later SLI positioning as a result is disingenuous.

I think we can get there, however let's not create linkage between parity now and SLI later where there is none.

 

[dtfl]

Actually, you added some of your own editorial comment:

I pointed out that it was incorrect.

You seem pretty defensive. Good luck with that.

You said the diff was 4. By the math its 5. Simply.

Defensive? After reading your, redtails and fly4hires constant BASHING of everything DAL, yes..I am.
Welcome aboard. Get the hat.

 

[Schwanker]

I think that many are misinformed. I know of no pilot here on the DAL property that wants to have you brought up to our scale over a period of time. That causes a lot of issues. More than just upsetting you guys.
We want parity and we want it now. Problem is that we will not sell out seniority to do it. As you will not either. By virtue of that issues, we may have no other choice than to have two contracts until the SLI is done.

Then why LOA 19? This could come back to ensure this merger attempt is a financial disaster. DALPA choosing to exclude NWA pilots in an effort to screw them instead of joining forces and negotiating a joint contract shows your (DALPAs) true colors. Actions speak louder than words.
Schwanker

 

[Fly4hire]

You said the diff was 4. By the math its 5. Simply.

Defensive? After reading your, redtails and fly4hires constant BASHING of everything DAL, yes..I am.
Welcome aboard. Get the hat.

Saying that your managment wants to treat us second class employees (fact) is bashing?

Saying that your MEC did not want to negotiate a fair and equitable (fact) SLI is bashing?

You must be dizzy from all the spin.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Frankly I think it will be a lot easier to bring you up to LOA 19 than it would have been to both negotiate it. Simply put the money is not there now. They want this done, and are willing to pay to get you here, but would not be willing to do so to get us to where LOA 19 pays.
I am waiting for this to get done for the cuts to be announced. I just wish they had the brawn to do it now so that we could beat the others to the job market. By the time they get to it, we will have to go overseas to get a job.