reverse thrusters

[flx757]

flex757,

Totally off the subject, what kind of guitar is that in your avatar?

That would be a Carvin CT4M .

 

[surfnole]

Air Florida Crash

Here's a link where thrust reversers were improperly used for pushback and it contributed to the accident cause.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20020917X01907&key=1

 

[furloughed]

A pilot told me that the thust reversers at slow speed suckd in a lot of FOD, and was bad for engines?
Is this as great of a concern as extra fuel burn?

FOD is less of a problem with tail mounted engines such as on the DC-9 series airplanes (MD80 and 717s). I don't think I have ever seen a airplane with wing mounted engines do a powerback because of this (FOD).

 

[GravityHater]

The one thing that no one has mentioned is that for any company (135 or 121) to be able to power back, they must be authorized to do so under Ops Spec C065

Do you have the opspecs on board (I'm doubtful), or do you have to call dispatch to read/interpret it, for something that is rarely used and maybe forgotten?

 

[flx757]

Do you have the opspecs on board (I'm doubtful), or do you have to call dispatch to read/interpret it, for something that is rarely used and maybe forgotten?

Yes, the information was available to the pilots on board the aircraft in one form or another. When I worked at companies that did powerbacks, it was covered in the Company Ops Manual or Flight Ops Manual, (depending on what that particular company called it), and the pertinent OpsSpec was referenced in that section of the Manual. For companies that did powerbacks, they weren't "rarely used", it was SOP. It was covered thoroughly in training and OE and the airport/gate information was also readily available on board. So your concern was not an issue at all.

For what it's worth, all OpsSpec C065 says is that the company is authorized to use powerplant reversing systems for rearward taxi. How, when and where is further spelled out in the Flight Ops (or similar) Manual. No dispatch interpretation is required unless you are doing some irregular ops or something to that effect.

 

[CrewResearch]

More reverse thrusters

I have to admit that, until I read this thread, I had never heard of using reverse thrusters for "powerback".

But then, I'm here to learn whatever I can about all that you guys do.

So, after I read this thread, I asked a pilot I know (senior captain with a US mainline, currently flying 757/767) if he had ever heard of this, or done it.

He told me that the airline he works for does not "allow" using reverse thrusters for anything except after landing to stop/slow the a/c. However -- he said he once used reverse thrusters to back up the a/c (a B727) enough to turn onto a taxiway, after "running out of room" due to fierce wind blowing the a/c sideways after landing, etc. He said it was the only thing that prevented a runway excursion.

Anyone else have an experience like this? Just curious...

 

[User546]

We've used it before (Citation II) to back into a parking space after arriving at our destination after the FBO closed and no one to push us back.

 

[CrewResearch]

Makes sense...

 

[Weasil]

He is correct, at US Airways Express we are not allowed to use reverse thrust for powerback either.

He told me that the airline he works for does not "allow" using reverse thrusters for anything except after landing to stop/slow the a/c. However -- he said he once used reverse thrusters to back up the a/c (a B727) enough to turn onto a taxiway, after "running out of room" due to fierce wind blowing the a/c sideways after landing, etc. He said it was the only thing that prevented a runway excursion.

Anyone else have an experience like this? Just curious...

A guy I flew with last week told me he parked on an icy ramp that morning and the aircraft started sliding forward even with the parking brake on. The only thing that stopped him from hitting something was some reverse thrust.
By the way Crew Research... they are called Thrust Reversers, not reverse thrusters.
Aside from the cost of fuel and FOD on the ground - the deployment of a thrust reverser costs money (mechanical wear and tear). manufacturers have a good idea how many cycles you get before equipment gets replaced. If every flight used powerback as well as thrust reverse on landing it would halve the life of the reversers. Let's say deploying reverse thrust cost $30/cycle. If you have 100 airplanes pushing back 5 times a day that is $15000/day. That equals $5,475,000/yr in powerback expenses.

 

[bafanguy]

At my former airline, the ops manual prohibited use of reverse to back the airplane unless it was the ONLY means of movement, and then only with special, one-time, FAA approval through an "Operational General Manager". In other words, you couldn't do it without an Act of Congress.


However, policy did allow use of idle reverse to assist the tug during pushback on a clippery ramp after coordination with the ground personnel. I used this a number of times over the years.