Requirements to get to fly Corporate

[banned username 2]

I think you are missing the point, the problems you are seeing are not indemic to ERAU grads so much as they are indemic to most of the "new pilots" these days who all they have seen is people getting hired to fly RJ's with 800 hours... They have this twisted misconception about what it is to be a pilot, and think everything needs to be catered to them...

Just read some of the posts on this board, MANY of these younger pilots feel that the airlines exist for one reason, to give THEM a place to fly airplanes, get paid and have a retirement... They feel the Airlines OWE them a huge salary, comfy retirement and leading edge equipment... Or that they deserve bigger salaries even though their companies are loosing millions or even billions of dollars!

I personally get very sick of these guys whinning because they have 800 hours and are still "stuck" being a CFI... this especially p!sses me off because of the thousands of much more qualified guys who are out there on furlough... The whinning gets old, and personally, I hope a lot of these whinners get tired of waiting for "their" RJ job (remember, the one that is OWED to them) and quit flying all together... I saw this same thing happen back in 1990... It was a little house cleaning for the industry... Just like a forest fire clears the forest and allows new growth, it is a regenerative process... These times in our industry are the same thing...

Like you said, these people have all been on their first or second job... They are still very young, inexperienced and immature... it is more to their age and lack of experience then where they went to school... Remember the big Universities are in business to make money, if they continually tell students "the industry sucks and you will probably fly as a CFI in a 172 for 3+ years" they will lose much of their business... They train you for a career in Aviation, and they focus on the stuff that sells... Airline or Corporate careers... not CFIing, or Charter or flying Freight.... these things aren't perceived as rewarding or glamourous... Well these kids get out and expect to cash in immediately... their immaturity leads them to believe it will happen right away.... They have no desire to "pay their dues" they want the big pay-off immediately.

As far as ERAU, being that it is so expensive, about 1/3 of the students there are from very rich families... Most (I said most, NOT all) of these kids are spoiled brats and would be no matter what field they were in... flying just looked "fun" to them... So since Daddy was footing the bill it looked like the way to go... These are the guys (and gals) you want to avoid like the plague... Bad news altogether... (looks to me like you've had the "plague" a couple times).... the OTHER 2/3 are hard working people who have a strong desire to have a successful Aviation Career.... They work hard and earn what they get... some are from rich families, some are from poor families with loans out the waazoo... These are they type of people you want to hire.. they have a very strong background from ERAU, they have a good attitude and strong work ethic... all around good people....

Here is a little story for you: When I was a Chief Flight Instructor, a guy I went to College with came in looking for a job he was wearing ratty shorts, sandles and a t-shirt (we were a casual flight school as our instructors could wear jeans, just had to appear neat), but this guy looked like a total slob. I didn't really know him at school, only recognized the name, but he came on like he was my buddy and then started in his rant that I OWED him a job because we graduated together! I sat and listened in disbelief.. I was stunned... Obviously this dude was off his rocker... Well needless to say, he didn't get hired... His attitude wasn't due to where he went to school but from the fact that he was immature. Any mature, rational adult would know better than this, he didn't...

Anyhow I am getting tired of typing (as you are probably getting tired of reading)... There are some bad eggs that come out of ERAU... But there are bad eggs everywhere.... and as far as whinning and the prima-donna attitudes.. just read this message board a little closer, you will be amazed at what you will read... and less than 10% of these people are ERAU grads...

Falcon Capt.
ERAU Class of 1990

 

[empenage]

Falcon Capt:

Good post. I had a discussion on a similar note. We dont raise Mothers or Fathers anymore either. We raise our kids on "Instant Gratification". You want it and 2 seconds later BAM you got it. It isnt just ERAU grads. The last few generations lost the work ethic.

 

[empenage]

Falcon Capt:

Good post. I had a discussion on a similar note. We dont raise Mothers or Fathers anymore either. We raise our kids on "Instant Gratification". You want it and 2 seconds later BAM you got it. It isnt just ERAU grads. The last few generations lost the work ethic.

 

[banned username 2]

Personally, I'd love to start out on a turboprop, to gain experience there. Then "work up the ladder" so to speak.

THIS is EXACTLY what I am talking about... "Start out" in a Turbo-Prop... What happened to the good ol' 172??? 300 hours and he is going to "step down" to a Turbo Prop!!! Oh PLEEEEEEZE!

All these new kids expect to "start out" 3 or 4 rungs up the ladder... THIS is the attitude that is causing the problems that Rick is seeing... No body want to work their way up from the bottom... they want to start in the middle and work up... Like Empenage was saying, "Instant Gratification"....

Well I think this downturn in the industry will be a wake-up call for many of these people, and they will realize this profession is a LOT more than just steering an airplane around the skys for a couple hours a day!

 

[empenage]

OK, this is it for me:

I worked baleing hay as a kid and the crews the old farmer hired for the summers were always hard workers. So I asked him one day how he picked his crews.

He said its simple kid...he always called me kid..."I hire the ones who show up without their hands in their pockets".

See ya.

 

[ch47fe]

So much resentment on this thread.

I just get the feeling that if you haven't always wanted to be a pilot and it's a second career for someone they are lost or just want to get ahead of everyone else and they are trying to get out of 'paying their dues'.

I am prior service aircrew and missed the boat on military flight training. I have sucked it up as many before me and realize I am going to have to borrow all of this money to get the training. It's all about what you put into it that you get out of it.

Also many people that have entered this field as a second career I don't think any less of. ALOT of people have left higher paying jobs to train for a job they want to do everyday. At least they want to be a pilot first and make big bucks second.

As far as all of these people entering the field and taking jobs working for less pay on the RJ. Everyone mad about it will not change it one bit. Market conditions will prevail. For everyone wanting to control the numbers of pilots entering 'their' profession it sounds communist. If everyone wants to be a pilot and becomes qualified to drive wages down so be it.

So many 'Senior' high-time aviators think if the new guy didn't do everything the way they did it they are scum and suck as a pilot. Sorry, I've just had to much of the older guys slinging mud on all the new folks trying to make their way into this crowded occupation.

What are these guys worried about? Not being able to make 250K/yr? Why don't you realize it might never happen for you?

later

 

[JetPilot500]

And I hate C172s (even though I fly one), so why would I want to start there?

FlyChicaga,

WOW! When I had 300TT and 15 Multi, I LOVED C172's or any other airplane for that matter. In fact, even today with 5000TT, I still love C172's.

Do you have any idea how many people wish they could fly a C172? Probally not any of you "New Kids" of course, you are too good for Single Engine airplanes. In fact, you are too good for piston engines all together!

If you can't be happy where you are right now, you will never be happy.

I suggest you all do a little soul searching, cuz you gonna be in that C172 for a long while if you stick with your pilot career.

You young kids disappoint me,
JetPilot500

 

[rumpletumbler]

I'd rather fly a piston twin than a turboprop. I'd also if I were ever in the big chair interviewing someone consider that better experience. Turboprop Smurboprop. If you don't burn it up then your done. A piston twin you have to actually work at to fly correctly. What crazed beast has entered the minds of the people who consider experience for hiring?

RT

 

[bigD]

Wow - this thread has gone a completely new direction since I last checked in!

Over the years, I've met lots of different people in aviation. It's always a goal of mine to meet someone new every time I head out to the airport. It seems to me that the vast majority of pilots out there have a strong desire to fly on some level. I've only met a few that regard it as a hobby on the same level that say, golf, is a hobby. But what I've also found is that the reasons behind the desire vary a bit in different people.

I think these varying reasons behind the desire is why there's a difference in opinion here. And really, I don't necessarily think one is any more valid than the other. Both result in a pilot that wants to learn as much as possible and be as proficient as possible - even if the underlying motivations are a little different.

When people ask me why I fly, the primary reason I give is simply the feeling of freedom I have when I'm up there. Not freemdom in the CFR/TFR/etc sense, but just the idea that regardless of whatever is going on in my life on the ground, be it stresses with school, relationships, my job, or whatever else - it gets left on the ground. In the time that I'm up there, it's just me, the plane, and the sky around me. Everything else disappears. Problems on the ground are tiny and insignificant. I can be flying over the most crime ridden ghetto area of the city, and from a mile up - it's no different than the middle class suburbs 10 miles away. I'm happy. I'm up there doing what I love to do, and every stress in the world can wait until I'm driving home from the airport.

Secondary to the above is the challenge of it all. My grandfather always told me that at any given time in the cockpit, if I can't think of 3 things I could be doing better - I'm not working hard enough. There's a satisfaction that comes from always striving to be perfect. I'll never accomplish it, of course, but I love the fact that no matter how proficient I get as a pilot - there's always another milestone to get to, and I can always raise the bar a little higher. Simply, there's always more to learn - and that's awesome!

Now, there are many, many other smaller reasons that I fly, but the two above are my primary ones, or at least the tangible ones that can be described with words.

Okay, so what's my point? Well, I'll bet that FlyChicaga identifies more with my second reason than the first one. He loves the challenge...and this drives him to always be looking at the bigger, faster plane. Or maybe older, in the DC-3 case. I'm sure that plane has a completely different set of challenges all its own! I personally am just as happy overall putzing around in a 152 as I am the Duchess. FlyChicaga probably doesn't feel the same way. But I also love the feeling of being 'in the system' when IFR, or the pleasure of initially feeling like I was way behind the plane when first learning to fly the Duchess, yet now it fits like an old glove. So I can see his point as view as well.

But fundamentally, we have the same passion. And although the reasons behind that passion may be different, it ultimately makes us strive to be the best pilots we're capable of being. And at least in my mind, that's the important thing.

Or I can be completely full of sh*t, and have FlyChicaga all wrong. But it's how I see it. I see young punks that really have no clue how good they have it, and others that have the passion but are merely well financed. I get jealous about it too, but I try hard not to equate the money with the calibur of pilot.

I also see old guys that have piss poor attitudes as well. My grandfather flew P-38's, and my life goal is to fly one before I die. I realize it's a VERY long shot, but I'm going to give it a try. I told this to a current P-38 pilot while admiring one at a museum, and he simply said, "Give it up, kid. There's no way you have the talent to fly one of these things. None of you young guys do." I'll never forget his words. That was just over a year ago, and my eyes still glass over when I think of that guy telling me that.

Okay...I'm done rambling! Thank you for your time.

 

[bigD]

Okaaaaaay....now that I'm actually awake and reread my post - man what a incoherent ramble! I need to refrain from posting when so friggin tired...sorry about that guys!

 

[banned username 2]

Nobody is blaming anyone for getting ahead... we all strive and (hopefully) achieve our career paths, thats the name of the game...

Everyone does it, and so did I (thats why I am going to Germany on Monday instead of the Practice Area for steep turns)...

What the complaint is, is that the 300 hours guys are more worried about FMS's, RTU's, EGPWS, TCAS II, etc... and everything else instead of continuing to develop their basic skill set (which they should be doing at 300 hours)... You need to have the basics 100% as good as you can get them, and you can't tell me at 300 hours you have completed that goal...

Yeah, have fun dreaming about the future, but make sure you put 110% effort into mastering the "basics" before you worry about the advanced...

Like the old saying you have to crawl before you walk and walk before you run....

Well at 300 hours, most pilots have just barely learned to crawl (figuratively speaking).... Keep practicing so you can learn to walk... instead of dwelling on how to become an Olympic sprinter... have that as your ultimate goal, but plan the appropriate steps to get there and you won't fall over the first hurdle you come across...

 

[empenage]

What were we talking about?

 

[banned username 2]

Either PFT, RJDC, or Scope. I can't really remember, but guessing one of those I think I have a 90% chance of being right.

DOH!

 

[empenage]

Shibby:

Sorry there buddy. We get side-tracked now and then...OK more often than not....

 

[banned username 2]

Shibby:

Sorry there buddy. We get side-tracked now and then...OK more often than not....

SERIOUSLY SIDETRACKED!

We are like a bunch of old ladies on this board!!!

(No offense to any old ladies out there!)