Republic looking at Bombardier C-Series to Maybe Replace F9 Airbuses?

[johnsonrod]

Wouldn't happen for a few years if it happens. Airbus would probably work hard to provide competitive pricing - so, who knows... At least F9 Airbus pilots won't have to get used to a traditional yoke again - the C-Series uses side-sticks like the Airbus... Looks like a nice airplane:

http://www.bombardier.com/en/aerosp...aft/cseries/technology?docID=0901260d800091f1

and nice flight deck:

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/assets_c/2009/03/cseries-RC-fusion_800.html

Let's hope the pay is comparable to the A320/19/18... See the article below:


Republic Airways eyeing Bombardier C-Series planes

Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:22pm EST

* Also talking to Airbus and Boeing
* Says Bombardier planes cheaper to buy, burn less fuel
* Company to likely make a decision on planes in Q1 2010
TORONTO, Dec 10 (Reuters) - Republic Airways Holdings (RJET.O) said it is evaluating Bombardier Inc's (BBDb.TO) new C-Series regional aircraft as it looks to fleet replacement at its low-cost Frontier Airlines subsidiary. Some 48 of 51 Airbus aircraft in Frontier's fleet are either owned or on leases that expire from 2013 to 2017, Hal Cooper, Republic's chief financial officer, said at a conference on Wednesday.

Republic closed the acquisition of the Denver-based regional carrier on Oct. 1 after Frontier emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.[ID:nN01269456]

"We are spending a lot of time with aircraft manufacturers trying to understand exactly what our refleeting options are," Cooper said, adding that they are also in talks with Airbus (EAD.PA) and Boeing (BA.N).
He said those two company's are offering lower operating costs for future deliveries and that their products would create long-term opportunities for any potential consolidation in the industry. However, he called the new 100-to-149-seat narrow-body Bombardier C-Series aircraft, due to come into service in 2013, "a pretty interesting opportunity."

Bombardier is "really marketing a 15 percent or higher lower fuel burn, lower acquisition cost, better operating cost, better mission capability and a higher degree of passenger comfort. That's a very interesting airplane to us."

"Unlike Airbus and unlike Boeing, we believe we can tap into some very attractive export financing through the EDC there," he said, referring to Export Development Canada, a government agency.
The company will likely make its decision on which airliners to go with in the first quarter of next year, he added.

Republic Chief Executive Brian Bedford said the company has purchasing commitments for four Airbus A320's in 2011 and another four in 2012, that it inherited when it bought Frontier. He stressed that they were just commitments, not obligations, and that Republic has the right to walk away from that contract with no cash damages.

Shares of Montreal-based Bombardier ended up 1.6 percent at C$4.58 on the Toronto Stock Exchange on Thursday. Shares of Republic were down 1.8 percent at $7.28 on the Nasdaq.

 

[On Your Six]

Nice airplane

That's a nice looking airplane with a pretty advanced office up front. I agree that the F9 guys better do whatever possible to preserve or improve their pay rates if the switch to the C-Series is made.

What about Delta? Was Delta also considering the C-Series to replace its now aging Diesel 9s? Delta better hurry up before the line for the C-Series gets too long...

 

[dougdrvr]

Maybe they will block off 11 seats and have to fly it under the existing contract ( which they will still be negotiating by the time it enters service)

 

[jetflier]

Last I heard was that DAL does not want the geared engines due to the technology being so young.
Rumor has it that the Diesel 9 replacement is more MD80/90 aircraft.

The DC950's (124 seats) will be staying while the DC9 30(100seat), and DC940(110seat) will be retired by the end of 2010.

 

[johnsonrod]

Just curious about seating on the F9 A318s, A319s and A320s. Does an A318 seat more than 110 seats? Not sure because I have never flown on the A318. I would think that a 149-seat C-Series would fit somewhere between an A319 and an A320 - right?

 

[jetalc]

Most of our 318's have 120 seats, most of the 319's have 136, and the 320's are 154 at Frontier. So, yes, the C-Series would be somewhere between a 319 and a 320...

 

[johnsonrod]

The article mentioned that your company is likely to make a decision on planes in Q1 2010 - so, at least you'll know sooner than later. With low interest rates and manufacturers spinning their wheels, I guess now is the time to do some deals...

 

[starchkr]

Most of our 318's have 120 seats, most of the 319's have 136, and the 320's are 154 at Frontier. So, yes, the C-Series would be somewhere between a 319 and a 320...

I thought we had 162 on the 320's...

also your "most" should be replaced with "all" every time you use it above.

 

[king10pin02]

this is simply a ploy to get a better deal from airbus

 

[johnsonrod]

Maybe they will get a deal to swap out a lot of the older CHQ CRJs for the newer C-Series (as part of a total package). I am sure Bombardier is anxious to get some big names signed-on for the new aircraft.

 

[king10pin02]

Maybe they will get a deal to swap out a lot of the older CHQ CRJs for the newer C-Series (as part of a total package). I am sure Bombardier is anxious to get some big names signed-on for the new aircraft.

crjs are almost gone, only one or two left and they will be gone in Jan.

 

[johnsonrod]

this is simply a ploy to get a better deal from airbus

That sounds logical, but stranger things have happened. Note that Transstates just ordered something like 30-40 Mitsubishi Regional Jets with no competing pitches from the other manufacturers. Bombardier wants some big names ordering its C-Series (beyond Swissair/Lufthansa) and Republic would be a huge win (and maybe start the ball rolling with other US carriers). Should be interesting to watch. At least the F9 pilots will keep their side-sticks either way...

 

[eightdriver]

Now they can call a 130 seat aircraft a regional jet and expect guys to fly them for $17.00 an hour.... That's my guess.

 

[AnimalTale]

Now they can call a 130 seat aircraft a regional jet and expect guys to fly them for $17.00 an hour.... That's my guess.

Out of Bryan Bedfords mouth "We are also a different airline in that we are the only regional using the E-jets.”

He is able to ACHIEVE and HOLD-ON TO SLAVE WAGES by spewing out this statement to his gullable and eager crews.<---MANIPULATE and USE MIND GAMES by degrading and lowering the value of the Ejet and his Airline.

That EJET is PRETTY BIG to be considered an Rj. THE PAY SHOULD EQUATE OR EXCEED Jblue or AirCanda.

Wake up!

CYA

 

[CHQ Pilot]

Out of Bryan Bedfords mouth "We are also a different airline in that we are the only regional using the E-jets.”

He is able to ACHIEVE and HOLD-ON TO SLAVE WAGES by spewing out this statement to his gullable and eager crews.<---MANIPULATE and USE MIND GAMES by degrading and lowering the value of the Ejet and his Airline.

That EJET is PRETTY BIG to be considered an Rj. THE PAY SHOULD EQUATE OR EXCEED Jblue or AirCanda.

Wake up!

CYA

That is the exact reason why I wouldn't expect a monumental contract (whenever it finally comes). BB and crew are masterminds at manipulation and the reasoning will be that RAH is not on the same level as even LCCs (AT, JetBlue, SWA) who they are competing against. The airlines needs to operate on lowering the value of the E-Jet (very good words). BB in his own words said they are looking at a fleet replacement for the Airbii. Although the C-Series would compete with the aircraft they are replacing, he could sucessfully lower the "value" of the airframe since there is no reference point for a pay scale. JetBlue brought the E190 online using this logic in my opinion. There were other aircraft already out there with similar seat numbers, yet the pay was set (and has almost become a standard to negotiate against) since it was a new type. Pay is yet a small portion of total compensation, but obviously has been a historical benchmark to measure against. QOL increases can yield a greater percentage change, but I just don't see it happening for RAH. The reason is because of what you have stated...the value of the airline and employee groups because management is sucessful at portraying the airline as a regional. Insurance costs, retirement, schedules, basing, and numerous other issues in play will fall behind in negotiation because there is a ideological divide between the carriers perceived as "large" and those as "regionals". The biggest uphill battle I see is that Frontier and the name Midwest did not bring RAH to large airline status, but marginalized them into regionals. It is going to be interesting how the airline moves forward.

 

[johnsonrod]

How many seats on a 717? Probably 120-130 - right? So, by some peoples' definition, a 717 could be considered a large RJ. Again, it is all semantics. The larger C-Series with 140 pax will be as big as a 717 or A319 which obviously are not considered RJs.

 

[CitationLover]

How many seats on a 717? Probably 120-130 - right? So, by some peoples' definition, a 717 could be considered a large RJ. Again, it is all semantics. The larger C-Series with 140 pax will be as big as a 717 or A319 which obviously are not considered RJs.

our 99 seater rates paid up to 40% more for CA's and up to 300% more for FO's versus the E190 rates Bedford is shelling out now.

but hey they wishfully think they'll get good rates with their next contract. hahaha.

 

[jayme]

Calling it a "regional" or "major" aircraft has ZERO influence on pay rates. Pay rates are influenced by your leverage to negotiate better pay. Regionals have very little leverage because they can be replaced by any other regional at any time. Major or "branded" pilots can negotiate high pay because they have SCOPE - their jobs can't be transferred to a lower paid colleague. Or in Jetblue's case (no scope) they at least have managment that understands that their passengers will not come back if they find themselves riding on a CRJ with poor service and no live TV. That leverage doesn't exist in the regional world so the wages are lower.

Regional pilots don't WANT to work for less - the market (even with the influence of unions) dictates that they WILL work for less.

 

[jetalc]

I thought we had 162 on the 320's...

also your "most" should be replaced with "all" every time you use it above.

Just flew a 319 with 132 still. Don't fly the 318's often enough to know - I probably stand corrected on the 320.

 

[eightdriver]

How many seats on a 717? Probably 120-130 - right? So, by some peoples' definition, a 717 could be considered a large RJ. Again, it is all semantics. The larger C-Series with 140 pax will be as big as a 717 or A319 which obviously are not considered RJs.

Doesn't matter how many seats the 717 or the A318 has. They are considered mainline aircraft. As long as their is an E or C in front of the aircraft type management will consider it an RJ. Embraer could have a 180 seater and it will be considered an RJ unless the pilots stand up and say enough is enough. The Midwest pilots payed the ultimate price trying to standup for fair payscales... we untimately got shafted for doing it, but at least we had the balls to tell B.B to F*** OFF with his bull$hit payrates.

8