Republic going shopping at the Delta Connection sale?

[Flying Horses]

Like the fact that Skywest was already in talks with DCI for Comair's 70's and that Comair's pay freeze is still way ahead of CHQ in every category?

I'd say DGdaPilot hit the nail on the head.

Not so, in 2 years, a CHQ pilot (or most any other regional pilot) will make more than a Comair pilot with the same length of service. This is for both 50 and 70 seat captain pay, and is only considering hard pay rates.

 

[Axel]

Jesus, listen to you guys. Playing right into management's hands.

Redirect.... Who is the adversary?

 

[Cracker]

I think there's more to it.

That not only applies to this thread but every aspect of a pilot group's decisions. We at CHQ/RP did what we did because at the time, with ALL things considered, we felt it needed to be done.

Those at Comair did what they did because they felt it needed to be done. Stating the obvious, but every labor contract is different because each pilot group may have different priorities.

Not everyone hear at CHQ/RP may like 100% of our contract and the same may go at every airline for their respective contracts, but all it takes is 51% to like it. That's the way it goes.

This includes our CHQ pilots here at "The Hangar"...do not blame another union's contract for your own situation. That's why we have different unions...you negotiate you own scope language, scheduling, payscales, etc. This whole "Race to the Bottom", destroying the pilot groups, selling yourselves BS argument has got to stop. You do your thing and I'll do mine.

Our FO payscales do suck for the most part. No one can argue against that... something to work on. But just 5 years ago, we were only flying 25 or so E145's (I think), 6 J-balls and and a few dozen Saabs with only 360 pilots. Now, we're leaps and bounds above that looking at the potential of flying the E190's(which we have no control over where they go...we just get our schedules and point the airplanes in the right direction). Is that bad? maybe.

Could we as a pilot done better? Possibly
Could yours? Possibly

It worked for us in the long run, but who knows in 5 or 10 years.

Quit blaming each other. Worry about your own butt.
Put yer units away and have a beer.

I think the soap box is giving out so I'm stepping off.

 

[I.P. Freley]

I think there's more to it.

Funny how when CHQ didn't get a killer contract, they "rolled over"... But when Comair or ExpJet don't get a killer contract or take a pay freeze, it's because "there's more to it".

 

[DGdaPilot]

Well apparently some CMR pilots were quick to talk when maybe they shouldn't have. Who cares....it's all just an endless cycle of fingerpointing. If someone buys into it, then it's their own fault.

 

[low-key]

I think we did really good in a post 9/11 enviroment. The problem with everyones contract is that everyone has an opinion on them. Here is the HUGEST thing that we DONT have at CHQ----- Junior Manning, and in my opinion that says alot.

 

[FlamingFUPA]

A big AMEN to that one lowkey

 

[twobits]

post sept-11th is BS..... The US economy was in a recession during Comair's contract negotiations. Something that was not so for chautauqua's or Mesa's contract.

http://www.thestreet.com/comment/spincycle/10001661.html


so if you use the sept. 11th argument then I have some land in FL I'd like to sell you (which is really good since MESA is about to show up and they obviously bought the doomsday reports from JO).


This really is a race to the bottom until some people collectively start to grow some OO

 

[Bluestreak]

post sept-11th is BS..... The US economy was in a recession during Comair's contract negotiations. Something that was not so for chautauqua's or Mesa's contract.

http://www.thestreet.com/comment/spincycle/10001661.html


so if you use the sept. 11th argument then I have some land in FL I'd like to sell you (which is really good since MESA is about to show up and they obviously bought the doomsday reports from JO).


This really is a race to the bottom until some people collectively start to grow some OO

Ok,so if things are so great why did Condom Air (The Delta Protection) agree to concessions,hmmmm ?

 

[Axel]

...This really is a race to the bottom until some people collectively start to grow some OO

The race to the bottom will continue until the pilots of all the airlines direct their anger and energy to the real source of the issue.

Someone comes on here with the "you're a bunch of wusses" speal and whoever got called a wuss says "nuh-uhhh" then starts the "yuh-huhh" and we see the same stupid thread we saw last week with the same stupid arguments and only the adjectives rearranged.

Management is pittting us against one another because it distracts us from the real issue. If it is a race to the bottom, it is not CHQ or Mesa or Comair who started it and/or perpetuates it. The starter's pistol is in your CEO's hand and the stands are filled with cheering stockholders.

We are not (or should not be) the enemy. Comair did not go to their management and say "Listen, we want more jets. Would a pay freeze be OK?" CHQ did not go to theirs and say "These pay rates are too high, can we negotiate something lower?" Nor did any of this happen in a vacuum. Don't you all think that the respective managements are not aware of and are not exploiting (as an integral part of their business plan) the tactical advantage of having the pilot groups compete against one another?

Not only does it allow the pilots to do the work of keeping wages down and work rules poor, it focuses the anger away from those at whom it should be directed. Did anyone read Orwell's "1984"? As long as the anger is directed at an enemy on the outside, the people will not see where the true injustice lies.

I am reminded of the Python flick "The Life of Brian". The Judean Peoples Front and the Peoples Front of Judea were so busy fighting each other that they completely lost sight of the fact that they were formed to resist the Romans. Remember that? Sound familiar? Difference is that it was funny when Python did it on the screen. We are living that dream and that is decidedly unfunny.

We are not the enemy. Not unless we allow our common enemy to make it so in our minds. If we allow that, then we are the tools of management and we own the consequences. So stop with childish and repetetive schoolyard tiffs and stop dancing to management's tune.

 

[SlapShot]

Let me preface this post by saying I am just a line pilot and do not know much about anything.

Every week the argument comes up on this board about pay scales and it NEVER gets resolved. Remember where most of us came from? Remember the days of eating machine cuisine and Ramen Noodles every day because that was all you could afford as a flight instructor? Being a “regional” FO is still much better then flight instructing. Until they get paid better, there is always going to be a ton of pilots willing to make $22.00/hr for the first year. Especially since the QOL is much better.

There are more issues then our pay scales. If United or any other carrier wants to add lift to their express operation they are going to give the contract to whoever has the lowest bid. Therefore our companies try to keep their costs low so that they can generate new business. One of the easiest ways to accomplish this is by keeping the payroll low.



On another note, are we really going to argue that the airlines were harder hit during the recession then they were post 9/11?

 

[cmrflyer]

I think it is great to see Freedom come to Orlando. It was awsome to see how happy the CHQ guys were when they heard the news. You should have heard them, scope this, contract that etc,etc ..... What a laugh.

I guess the reality of someone doing your job for less pay isn't quite as much fun when you are the one getting undercut!

Enjoy it kids.

Maybe now they can stay the hell out of our "ops". I know its nice, but you have your own.

 

[FlamingFUPA]

I think it is great to see Freedom come to Orlando. It was awsome to see how happy the CHQ guys were when they heard the news. You should have heard them, scope this, contract that etc,etc ..... What a laugh.

I guess the reality of someone doing your job for less pay isn't quite as much fun when you are the one getting undercut!

Enjoy it kids.

Maybe now they can stay the hell out of our "ops". I know its nice, but you have your own.

Way to be the little man and take this thread back in a bad direction after the last two posts were constructive. A$$hat

 

[737 Pylt]

I think it is great to see Freedom come to Orlando. It was awsome to see how happy the CHQ guys were when they heard the news. You should have heard them, scope this, contract that etc,etc ..... What a laugh.

I guess the reality of someone doing your job for less pay isn't quite as much fun when you are the one getting undercut!

Enjoy it kids.

Maybe now they can stay the hell out of our "ops". I know its nice, but you have your own.

If you are a CMR pilot, you should see the irony in your own post!
737

 

[Axel]

We are not the enemy. Not unless we allow our common enemy to make it so in our minds. If we allow that, then we are the tools of management and we own the consequences. So stop with childish and repetetive schoolyard tiffs and stop dancing to management's tune.

I think it is great to see Freedom come to Orlando. It was awsome to see how happy the CHQ guys were when they heard the news. You should have heard them, scope this, contract that etc,etc ..... What a laugh.

I guess the reality of someone doing your job for less pay isn't quite as much fun when you are the one getting undercut!

Enjoy it kids.

Maybe now they can stay the hell out of our "ops". I know its nice, but you have your own.

You, cmrflyer, are by definition management's tool. An unwitting tool, perhaps, but no less useful for it. Although, in all fairness if indeed the CHQ guys were whining as you said they share space in the toolbox with you.

 

[aewanabe]

I think it is great to see Freedom come to Orlando. It was awsome to see how happy the CHQ guys were when they heard the news. You should have heard them, scope this, contract that etc,etc ..... What a laugh.

I guess the reality of someone doing your job for less pay isn't quite as much fun when you are the one getting undercut!

Enjoy it kids.

Maybe now they can stay the hell out of our "ops". I know its nice, but you have your own.

First off, agreed that any CHQ brothers b!tching about MESA coming to Orlando is stupid. As always, any of us are only gonna fly where mgmt puts the airplane. I KNOW nobody was dumb enough to be bitching about scope. Our air-tight scope only stops our own holding company from fukcing us. Has nothing to do with who does DCI, ABC, etc...

Why don't you ask your rampers who they'd rather see hang out in "your" ops. They actually like us 'cuz we'll hang out, talk to them, share a smoke, and treat 'em like real people, instead of having our noses in the air because we happen to drive a WSCoD or a Tundra jet. BTW that place is a dump. We only hang out there when our turn time isn't long enough to hike down to gate 93. Peace.

 

[Axel]

Good until the 2nd paragraph, then more of the same.

nyuh-uhhh!

Get the BFH. Right there in the toolbox.

 

[cmrflyer]

If it is such a bump, i suggest you stay out, and keep you bags out of there too. To tell you the truth i have been friends with our rampies in orlando for almost six years, i know them by name. The only time you see a nose in the air its because something around here stinks.

 

[inthewind]

Hey cmrflyer,
If the ramp and gate people like you so much why were they so sad to see ACJet leave LGA, BOS and JFK. Why did the A gates in CVG go senior for the rampers if you guys are so great. They all hated you guys and said that us at ACjet were much better to hang out with.

 

[Traumahawk]

The whole payscale argument is a joke...A HUGE JOKE!!


For Comair people that think they are on a high horse(I tuly believe this is a minority of that pilot group)......Whats your basis?? Other people doing the same job for less? When are we going to see a Delta mainline scale for you guys?? Don't tell me for a second there weren't mainline a/c on half the routes you fly less than a few years ago...there are WAYYY too many planes parked in the desert for you to answer otherwise.

This goes for almost every regional jet operation. Is it the way things are now in the industry? yes. But for God's sake shutup about who gets what and who you're not allowing to jumpseat and who's racing to the bottom etc...

You just go to work and fly where they tell you to fly right? It's not your fault your company can do the job for less than a prevous mainline a/c and crew is it?? Well take that mentality and apply it to the hypocrictical arguments on here day after day after day.

Go to work. Enjoy yourself. Worry about yourself. Stop b!tcing.

T-Hawk

P.S. Lets start a new forum called "Payscales" and move all of this bickering into it, so the regional forum can perhaps go two reply's without this 5 year old whining.
Bring back the "taking a dump on an airplane thread" That was back when everyone here acted like dorky pilots, instead of dorky b!tches. Much better if you ask me.