Republic first regional to create B-scale??

[Popeye0537]

1.H.5.c wrote:
The operations of the Company and those of the other air
carrier shall be kept separate unless and until the processes
described in paragraph b above is completed and the
seniority lists of the two pilot groups are integrated in
accordance with Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-
Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions are completed. During
such time of separate operations, neither aircraft nor pilots
shall be interchanged without the Union’s written consent.


RAH will need written consent to place those A/C on the certificate. Also if all Lynx pilots become RAH pilots, you must attend new hire process which takes time. This is all fluff until the FAA approves the moving of the AC to the RAH certificate.

 

[cale42]

RAH will need written consent to place those A/C on the certificate. Also if all Lynx pilots become RAH pilots, you must attend new hire process which takes time. This is all fluff until the FAA approves the moving of the AC to the RAH certificate.

They will approve it. Early November time frame. The new hire training is already scheduled.. they are sending people to Denver to do it. Indoc only, 2 weeks.

IBT needs to react to this. NOW.

cale

 

[Popeye0537]

They are on it as we speak, but I just re-read the F9FYI and it didn't state anywhere that Lynx pilots would be operating the Q's....it just states RAH pilots.

No rate, no RAH trained turboprop operators, Union consent.....seems like a lot to complete by Oct 1 when the planed transition occurs.

 

[cale42]

It won't be Oct 1. Transition will happen mid November timeframe.

I have the documentation that says it will be Lynx pilots flying the planes with a fence. It's an official Q and A from RAH management.

How many things have been done without union consent even when required in the last 24 months?? Aren't you also required to have 6 months notice when they add a new type airframe. How did that go with the 190's? Seems like the company was able to impose that flying just fine without union consent.

cale

 

[rumrunner300]

Q

. . . as long as the pay rates assigned to
such aircraft type are not less than the rates provided by this Article or the
principal Agreement for aircraft with similar power plant (turboprop or jet)
and seat range that either includes the number of seats in the new aircraft. . .

I hate to say anything since I don't have the entire agreement (Article) in front of me but it seems to me that said aircraft would need the same seat range AND powerplant to be included. If one wishes to attempt to emphasize the former clause, I presume the article "provides" for 70 (or however many seats the Q4's have) Jet.

This just might be a case of purely bad lawyering. Pay more, it's worth it.

Again, I don't have the whole contract to read so the above is conjecture only.

rr

 

[cale42]

An admittedly interesting interpretation of the language rumrunner.

I took it to mean any aircraft with a similar powerplant had to be paid based on the number of seats rates already established. Interpreting similar to mean it has to be the same powerplant brings up a fascinating point. I don't think that is what the language intended but it is a great point.

cale

 

[CitationLover]

there is no such thing as iron clad scope.

 

[Jetjockey]

there is no such thing as iron clad scope.

Especially when it's only 2 paragraphs long!

 

[Popeye0537]

It won't be Oct 1. Transition will happen mid November timeframe.

I have the documentation that says it will be Lynx pilots flying the planes with a fence. It's an official Q and A from RAH management.

How many things have been done without union consent even when required in the last 24 months?? Aren't you also required to have 6 months notice when they add a new type airframe. How did that go with the 190's? Seems like the company was able to impose that flying just fine without union consent.

cale

170/190 are a common type A/C, so there was no need to have the union agree to them. The only thing that must be negotiated was the first 3 deliveries came configured with 100 seats. Arbitration has been ongoing since they set foot in MKE.

As for what management has said.....ask the F9 guys who were told that to their face that they were going to remain a stand alone certificate, then with our union at the table, did the currly shuffle backwards as fast as they could.

 

[cale42]

As for what management has said.....ask the F9 guys who were told that to their face that they were going to remain a stand alone certificate, then with our union at the table, did the currly shuffle backwards as fast as they could.

So you honestly believe that RAH will furlough 40 Lynx guys, and pay to train 40 RAH guys to fly the Q? And have all that done in time to continue routes into ASE for ski season? The company will do what is financially most acceptable to them(which will be fence the Lynx pilots on the Q) and tell the union to grieve it if they have a problem.

This is the reality, and I thoroughly expect IBT to grieve it. However the day we are put on the Republic certificate we also become represented by IBT and they have to look out for our rights as well. It is a Catch 22 I don't envy, but it is a fact of life. It would behoove everybody not to bicker over 40 seats, but to focus on not letting management create a superiorly sub-standard B-scale without any IBT intervention.

cale

 

[Popeye0537]

No I think that they will try to keep the props running until April but the backlash that will ensue will not be worth the effort in the end and they will just shut it down after a month or so.

You have not paid dues so you will not be represented by the IBT until such time that the paperwork is filled out....also you are an at will employee until your first year of probation is completed.

70 seats are 70 seats, so I don't know how you would call them B scale once they are set by a LOA. If anything Lynx set the standard for those sub-standard wages by which now management will try to retain them. You were your worst enemy by taking the job at Lynx and now you want my union to do what you were unwilling to do in the first place....???

 

[cale42]

No I think that they will try to keep the props running until April but the backlash that will ensue will not be worth the effort in the end and they will just shut it down after a month or so.

You have not paid dues so you will not be represented by the IBT until such time that the paperwork is filled out....also you are an at will employee until your first year of probation is completed.

70 seats are 70 seats, so I don't know how you would call them B scale once they are set by a LOA. If anything Lynx set the standard for those sub-standard wages by which now management will try to retain them. You were your worst enemy by taking the job at Lynx and now you want my union to do what you were unwilling to do in the first place....???

Wow.. you really hate Lynx guys don't you?

If there is going to be backlash why isn't it happening NOW? Why is IBT being silent about this?

My constant gripe about the B-scale is because your CBA clearly states that if an aircraft is added to a certificate it must be paid at the same rates as already established for that aircraft until an LOA is reached. By paying the Lynx pay scale and not the RAH payscale this is a direct violation of your CBA. It also places you guys at an extreme disadvantage whenever Section 6 negotiations resume in earnest. Now the company will have a new lower pay scale they can point to and use as a baseline. The companies first arguement will be those guys make less, so should you.

In the short term I will openly admit I'm protecting my own dog in this fight, and I'll also admit our rates our embarrassing. I'm interested in protecting the overall group in the long term though and if IBT lets this happen it is not good for anybody. I wish we had fixed our own rates but we didn't(and there is a big difference between unwilling and unable), now is another opportunity and I want "your" union, soon to be "my" union as well to do right by all of us.

cale

 

[CX880]

No I think that they will try to keep the props running until April but the backlash that will ensue will not be worth the effort in the end and they will just shut it down after a month or so.

You have not paid dues so you will not be represented by the IBT until such time that the paperwork is filled out....also you are an at will employee until your first year of probation is completed.

70 seats are 70 seats, so I don't know how you would call them B scale once they are set by a LOA. If anything Lynx set the standard for those sub-standard wages by which now management will try to retain them. You were your worst enemy by taking the job at Lynx and now you want my union to do what you were unwilling to do in the first place....???

wow. a regional whore insulting another regional prostitute. what else is new?

 

[Mongolikecandy]

If anything Lynx set the standard for those sub-standard wages by which now management will try to retain them. You were your worst enemy by taking the job at Lynx and now you want my union to do what you were unwilling to do in the first place....???

Hey Pot, it's the kettle. 20 year payscales and FOs top out at $37. And don't give the weak argument that this was negotiated years ago. It was a sh*tty deal back when it was signed.

 

[MCOE175]

It won't be Oct 1. Transition will happen mid November timeframe.

I have the documentation that says it will be Lynx pilots flying the planes with a fence. It's an official Q and A from RAH management.

How many things have been done without union consent even when required in the last 24 months?? Aren't you also required to have 6 months notice when they add a new type airframe. How did that go with the 190's? Seems like the company was able to impose that flying just fine without union consent.

cale

I personally know 2 check airmen that are going to YUL for training on the Q in Sept. They also said there are going to be transition classes opening for bidding in Sept. Who knows what the plans are, but I really don't think BB is going to fence lynx... he wouldn't have a say in that. The unions work that out as part of the integration.