Republic first regional to create B-scale??

[cale42]

An admittedly interesting interpretation of the language rumrunner.

I took it to mean any aircraft with a similar powerplant had to be paid based on the number of seats rates already established. Interpreting similar to mean it has to be the same powerplant brings up a fascinating point. I don't think that is what the language intended but it is a great point.

cale

 

[CitationLover]

there is no such thing as iron clad scope.

 

[Jetjockey]

there is no such thing as iron clad scope.

Especially when it's only 2 paragraphs long!

 

[Popeye0537]

It won't be Oct 1. Transition will happen mid November timeframe.

I have the documentation that says it will be Lynx pilots flying the planes with a fence. It's an official Q and A from RAH management.

How many things have been done without union consent even when required in the last 24 months?? Aren't you also required to have 6 months notice when they add a new type airframe. How did that go with the 190's? Seems like the company was able to impose that flying just fine without union consent.

cale

170/190 are a common type A/C, so there was no need to have the union agree to them. The only thing that must be negotiated was the first 3 deliveries came configured with 100 seats. Arbitration has been ongoing since they set foot in MKE.

As for what management has said.....ask the F9 guys who were told that to their face that they were going to remain a stand alone certificate, then with our union at the table, did the currly shuffle backwards as fast as they could.

 

[cale42]

As for what management has said.....ask the F9 guys who were told that to their face that they were going to remain a stand alone certificate, then with our union at the table, did the currly shuffle backwards as fast as they could.

So you honestly believe that RAH will furlough 40 Lynx guys, and pay to train 40 RAH guys to fly the Q? And have all that done in time to continue routes into ASE for ski season? The company will do what is financially most acceptable to them(which will be fence the Lynx pilots on the Q) and tell the union to grieve it if they have a problem.

This is the reality, and I thoroughly expect IBT to grieve it. However the day we are put on the Republic certificate we also become represented by IBT and they have to look out for our rights as well. It is a Catch 22 I don't envy, but it is a fact of life. It would behoove everybody not to bicker over 40 seats, but to focus on not letting management create a superiorly sub-standard B-scale without any IBT intervention.

cale

 

[Popeye0537]

No I think that they will try to keep the props running until April but the backlash that will ensue will not be worth the effort in the end and they will just shut it down after a month or so.

You have not paid dues so you will not be represented by the IBT until such time that the paperwork is filled out....also you are an at will employee until your first year of probation is completed.

70 seats are 70 seats, so I don't know how you would call them B scale once they are set by a LOA. If anything Lynx set the standard for those sub-standard wages by which now management will try to retain them. You were your worst enemy by taking the job at Lynx and now you want my union to do what you were unwilling to do in the first place....???

 

[cale42]

No I think that they will try to keep the props running until April but the backlash that will ensue will not be worth the effort in the end and they will just shut it down after a month or so.

You have not paid dues so you will not be represented by the IBT until such time that the paperwork is filled out....also you are an at will employee until your first year of probation is completed.

70 seats are 70 seats, so I don't know how you would call them B scale once they are set by a LOA. If anything Lynx set the standard for those sub-standard wages by which now management will try to retain them. You were your worst enemy by taking the job at Lynx and now you want my union to do what you were unwilling to do in the first place....???

Wow.. you really hate Lynx guys don't you?

If there is going to be backlash why isn't it happening NOW? Why is IBT being silent about this?

My constant gripe about the B-scale is because your CBA clearly states that if an aircraft is added to a certificate it must be paid at the same rates as already established for that aircraft until an LOA is reached. By paying the Lynx pay scale and not the RAH payscale this is a direct violation of your CBA. It also places you guys at an extreme disadvantage whenever Section 6 negotiations resume in earnest. Now the company will have a new lower pay scale they can point to and use as a baseline. The companies first arguement will be those guys make less, so should you.

In the short term I will openly admit I'm protecting my own dog in this fight, and I'll also admit our rates our embarrassing. I'm interested in protecting the overall group in the long term though and if IBT lets this happen it is not good for anybody. I wish we had fixed our own rates but we didn't(and there is a big difference between unwilling and unable), now is another opportunity and I want "your" union, soon to be "my" union as well to do right by all of us.

cale

 

[CX880]

No I think that they will try to keep the props running until April but the backlash that will ensue will not be worth the effort in the end and they will just shut it down after a month or so.

You have not paid dues so you will not be represented by the IBT until such time that the paperwork is filled out....also you are an at will employee until your first year of probation is completed.

70 seats are 70 seats, so I don't know how you would call them B scale once they are set by a LOA. If anything Lynx set the standard for those sub-standard wages by which now management will try to retain them. You were your worst enemy by taking the job at Lynx and now you want my union to do what you were unwilling to do in the first place....???

wow. a regional whore insulting another regional prostitute. what else is new?

 

[Mongolikecandy]

If anything Lynx set the standard for those sub-standard wages by which now management will try to retain them. You were your worst enemy by taking the job at Lynx and now you want my union to do what you were unwilling to do in the first place....???

Hey Pot, it's the kettle. 20 year payscales and FOs top out at $37. And don't give the weak argument that this was negotiated years ago. It was a sh*tty deal back when it was signed.

 

[MCOE175]

It won't be Oct 1. Transition will happen mid November timeframe.

I have the documentation that says it will be Lynx pilots flying the planes with a fence. It's an official Q and A from RAH management.

How many things have been done without union consent even when required in the last 24 months?? Aren't you also required to have 6 months notice when they add a new type airframe. How did that go with the 190's? Seems like the company was able to impose that flying just fine without union consent.

cale

I personally know 2 check airmen that are going to YUL for training on the Q in Sept. They also said there are going to be transition classes opening for bidding in Sept. Who knows what the plans are, but I really don't think BB is going to fence lynx... he wouldn't have a say in that. The unions work that out as part of the integration.

 

[chqflyer]

Guppy, Cale is 100% correct in stating that the company will just pick and choose what parts of the CBA they will follow. They do it every damn day. The IBT is completely powerless to do anything about it. A grievance would take YEARS before it's heard, then lost.

 

[Popeye0537]

Wow.. you really hate Lynx guys don't you?

If there is going to be backlash why isn't it happening NOW? Why is IBT being silent about this?

My constant gripe about the B-scale is because your CBA clearly states that if an aircraft is added to a certificate it must be paid at the same rates as already established for that aircraft until an LOA is reached. By paying the Lynx pay scale and not the RAH payscale this is a direct violation of your CBA. It also places you guys at an extreme disadvantage whenever Section 6 negotiations resume in earnest. Now the company will have a new lower pay scale they can point to and use as a baseline. The companies first arguement will be those guys make less, so should you.

In the short term I will openly admit I'm protecting my own dog in this fight, and I'll also admit our rates our embarrassing. I'm interested in protecting the overall group in the long term though and if IBT lets this happen it is not good for anybody. I wish we had fixed our own rates but we didn't(and there is a big difference between unwilling and unable), now is another opportunity and I want "your" union, soon to be "my" union as well to do right by all of us.

cale

Why would you say that I hate you guys? It's us against them. You are part of the team now. There is only one guy that I dislike from Lynx (Vegas99) because he spews his hate and ill will towards us as a pilot group.

Our FO rates suck...got me there, welcome to 2008 Mongo. How are your rates doing??

"The Union" will do right by us, but it takes time. You go off the handle saying "republic the first regional with a B scale", when we don't even know how this will play out. Give it time.

 

[sshrae]

[

Our FO rates suck...got me there, welcome to 2008 Mongo. How are your rates doing??


Guess what Popeye, its not just your FO wages that suck.

 

[Vegaspilot99]

Why would you say that I hate you guys? It's us against them. You are part of the team now. There is only one guy that I dislike from Lynx (Vegas99) because he spews his hate and ill will towards us as a pilot group.

I don't hate or wish ill will toward the RAH pilot group. I hope everyone can somehow benefit from this mess. I'm saddened and upset by what has happened, but I don't wish the pilots any ill will. I just haven't been too impressed by what I've seen up to this point. Hopefully something good can come out of it in the end.

 

[cale42]

Why would you say that I hate you guys? It's us against them. You are part of the team now. There is only one guy that I dislike from Lynx (Vegas99) because he spews his hate and ill will towards us as a pilot group.

Our FO rates suck...got me there, welcome to 2008 Mongo. How are your rates doing??

"The Union" will do right by us, but it takes time. You go off the handle saying "republic the first regional with a B scale", when we don't even know how this will play out. Give it time.

It is us against them.. glad to hear we are on the same page.

I wasn't the one who said anything about your FO rates.. in fact that's what I'm fighting for because my butt is about to get downgraded, and your 4th year FO rates are $10/hr higher than ours.

I maintain though that if the company starts flying the Q's for current Lynx pay scales that amounts to a B-scale. And that is what they are saying they plan to do. Will it happen? I don't know. But to me if they are stating their intention to do that there should be outrage on the union and the pilots part. I'm just trying to get that information out there because I feel it is only being communicated internally to Lynx right now.

cale

 

[StaySeated]

170/190 are a common type A/C, so there was no need to have the union agree to them. The only thing that must be negotiated was the first 3 deliveries came configured with 100 seats. Arbitration has been ongoing since they set foot in MKE.

As for what management has said.....ask the F9 guys who were told that to their face that they were going to remain a stand alone certificate, then with our union at the table, did the currly shuffle backwards as fast as they could.

Popeye, once again you don't have a firm grasp of the facts.

You do realize that FAPA ratified an LOA that REQUIRES integration and a Master Seniority List, don't you? Sure BB said that he wanted the operations separate, but he says a lot of things, doesn't he?

As for current RAH pilots flying the Q, how do you propose that is going to happen? Vacancy Bid? When was the last time you have had a vacancy bid? Has anyone actually bid the 190?

The deal for the sale of 5 Q's fell through. RAH loses less money to fly a couple of them at a loss than it is to park all of them. It is exactly like the orphaned ERJ's and 170's. They don't want them, but they still have to pay the notes, so they fly them for a loss and the damage isn't as bad than it would be if they just parked them.

They are selling tickets on the Q for flights in November. They will be flown by RAH pilots, only those RAH pilots will exclusively be former Lynx pilots. T

 

[StaySeated]

Thanks Cale.

I won't get into the staple/not staple screwjob that may or may not have taken place at Southwest. I'll just say that it's too bad you guys aren't flying to Gary Kelly right now.

Gup

Gup, you are going to be the first one to chime in once we get hammered by the arbitrator. I am not sure why you get so much joy out of another pilot group's misfortune.

 

[dougdrvr]

The mantra of the Repubic pilots..........."Just give it time!".

Guess what Cale, they got rid of the Midwest pilots by terminating the 717 leases and paying a penalty and now they figured out how to keep some of your planes and still get rid of you.

 

[GuppyWN]

Gup, you are going to be the first one to chime in once we get hammered by the arbitrator. I am not sure why you get so much joy out of another pilot group's misfortune.

Thanks for the vote of confidence "bro."

Without highjacking the thread I will tell you the same thing I have told others in PM's - Pilots in Chapter 7 don't have a lot of say in their future and if I had it to do over I'd still insist that you get stapled. If you choose to attack me for my stance then start another thread.

Your SLI has a chance to set the precidence going forward as to how future Mergers and Acquisitions may or may not be structured.

I happen to be interested in the turnout as should every other 121 pilot in the free world.

Gup

 

[BoilerUP]

Chapter 7 is liquidation...which Frontier wasn't involved in.