Republic Airways posts first quarter loss

[BORG]

First off, I appreciate your question and to prove that I am a reasonable person (unlike Bluestreak) I will acknowledge that the Republic pilots were in a difficult, if not impossible position.

To answer your question... I personally would refuse to do a job that someone else was doing the day before for twice as much money. Forget the ethical implications of "stealing" another person's job, but from a strictly selfish point of view it would drive me crazy to think I SHOULD be making twice as much money. Obviously at Midwest we didn't have industry leading pay, but we were in line with the other LCC payrates and fully expected to improve our contract when negotiations opened.

I further understand that me leaving my job would have no real impact because as you point out I would immediately be replaced. This is the fundamental problem in aviation that has been discussed ad nauseum but will eventually need to be fixed if this job is ever to become a career again.

I know everyone will call BS and say I wouldn't leave my job, but I can assure you that unless Republic payrates are greater than or equal to what I was making at Midwest I will not accept a recall at Republic. Considering the fact that I don't have full-time aviation employment I would consider that the same as walking off the job.

 

[Skyboy722]

First off, I appreciate your question and to prove that I am a reasonable person (unlike Bluestreak) I will acknowledge that the Republic pilots were in a difficult, if not impossible position.

To answer your question... I personally would refuse to do a job that someone else was doing the day before for twice as much money. Forget the ethical implications of "stealing" another person's job, but from a strictly selfish point of view it would drive me crazy to think I SHOULD be making twice as much money. Obviously at Midwest we didn't have industry leading pay, but we were in line with the other LCC payrates and fully expected to improve our contract when negotiations opened.

I further understand that me leaving my job would have no real impact because as you point out I would immediately be replaced. This is the fundamental problem in aviation that has been discussed ad nauseum but will eventually need to be fixed if this job is ever to become a career again.

I know everyone will call BS and say I wouldn't leave my job, but I can assure you that unless Republic payrates are greater than or equal to what I was making at Midwest I will not accept a recall at Republic. Considering the fact that I don't have full-time aviation employment I would consider that the same as walking off the job.

Borg,
Thanks for your well reasoned reply. I think the one thing we can all agree upon is that somewhere along the way, the lines between regionals and majors has been blurred. I remember when the regionals only used to fly to places like Altoona, PA and Waterloo, IA, and everyone was happy with that. Then along came RJs, then bigger RJs, then some creative attorney types who found a way to exploit even the smallest contractual loophole, and here we are. What a mess.

The question is, if it must be asked, who is to blame? I was hired into a turboprop to fly into tiny little towns to bring a handful of people at a time into a hub. I absolutely loved it. Fast forward to post 9-11. My airline had parked all of the turboprops, and displaced me into one of their shiny new RJs. The majors were furloughing like crazy, and my schedule contained legs like DFW-ATL-BOS, on an RJ! I was enraged, and miserable. Despite the fact that I still had a job, and was an RJ CA, I hated it, because I knew I was soundly and firmly STUCK there. As long as my company, and the industry in general, had me flying these routes I would never get out of there, and my plan, like everyone else's, was to get in and then get out!

I completey respect and understand your decision to not accept recall to Republic (I wouldn't either). But that's coming from the perspective of having been to a major (which I consider Midwest to have been). From Midwest, Republic is a huge step down, as any regional would be. But it's a different view from the bottom, when you're just starting out. Your only civilian choices are Regional (now just about all RJ) and corporate. It's alot harder to leave that gig when it's the highest level that you've yet attained. Besides, leaving a regional without any real reason is inexplicable in a interview, as "the big guys" are looking for upward career progression (at the regional level) and not lateral.

I guess this is a really long winded way of saying that I have some heartache about the blame for all this falling on the pilots themselves, when lawyers, managements, and labor contracts (and their deliberate exploitation) are far more to blame. One thing for sure, this sucks for everybody. This even sucks for the regional pilot who's just thrilled to be flying a great big RJ, and doesn't realize that his situation is actually terrible. Try not to be too mad at that guy, he's just naive, and excited to be an airline pilot, just like I was. If anything, feel sorry for him, because thanks to the way this business has changed, he won't be able to enjoy the career as those who went before him. But make no mistake, his realization is coming, and when he figures it out, he won't be happy about it either.

 

[BORG]

Skyboy, I agree with the vast majority of what you're saying (and I realize that it goes against all FI norms). If you review this thread, you'll see that the first comment I've ever made on this forum (after several years of lurking) came in response to a Republic pilot defending their crappy E190 wages by saying they were only used on their "branded schtuff" thereby implying that the only people they were hurting were themselves. Obviously I strenuously disagree with that assertion as I believe most reasonably intelligent and logical people would. This thread spiraled out of control from there...

What I have noticed is that many regional pilots are quick to blame majors for not holding onto scope. I would pose the question: Why is that the sole responsibility of the majors? Is it not just as easy for regional pilots to say "We're not going to fly airplanes with more than XX seats."? And if they agree to fly XX seats, should they not demand industry standard mainline wages?

This new situation with Republic will be very interesting because for the first time it will be possible to be hired at a regional and fly for a "major" (Frontier) all on the same seniority list. This SLI and contract negotiation has the potential to make or break this airline and if there are very many pilots like bluestreak, I don't have much confidence in their success...

The point you make in your last sentence is the exact point I've been trying to make to every Republic pilot I encounter (and it's been a bunch). Even if we disregard the Midwest debacle, until they DEMAND mainline wages for mainline flying, they are screwing themselves (both their current selves and their future selves) and the rest of the industry.

 

[BORG]

P.S.

The only thing I really disagree with in your post is this sentence. "But it's a different view from the bottom, when you're just starting out." I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that bluestreak is just starting out. He should definitely know better...

 

[UnstableAviator]

I've yet to see one post on this subject advising a legal, effective action that RAH pilots could have taken. Not one post. A lot of bitching, and "I woulda done this!" type stuff, but no actual advice. The RAILWAY LABOR ACT is killing us here and until that changes, pilot groups will always be bringing a knife to a tank battle.

 

[Bluestreak]

P.S.

The only thing I really disagree with in your post is this sentence. "But it's a different view from the bottom, when you're just starting out." I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that bluestreak is just starting out. He should definitely know better...

Where to begin with you ? Here's a gem:

"I believe the term is used too often and too carelessly, but while they don't meet the strict definition of scabs, the end result was exactly the same..."

So why mention the word scab,hmmm ? Because you like to imply that RAH pilots are some kind of "pseudo-scab".And you're dumbfounded when someone doesn't take kindly to it ? But wait,there's more ! How about the "morons that took our jobs" statement ? And it surprises you that someone might kinda,sorta not like it ? Need more,dimbulb ?

"To answer your question... I personally would refuse to do a job that someone else was doing the day before for twice as much money. Forget the ethical implications of "stealing" another person's job, but from a strictly selfish point of view it would drive me crazy to think I SHOULD be making twice as much money."

Job stealers ! Ok,so RAH pilots are job stealing,pseudo-scab morons,that's what you've established.Oh and sniff-sniff,kinda gets me right here,that you would walk off the job.I can hear "Proud To Be An American" playing in the background as you walk up the jetbridge....Bull,I don't believe a word of it.Another gem:

"What I have noticed is that many regional pilots are quick to blame majors for not holding onto scope. I would pose the question: Why is that the sole responsibility of the majors? "

Oh,wait wait,I know this one ! Because they basically own the flying ! They have say-so over it. So,who IS to blame for YOUR crappy scope clause ? YOU ! You,or your colleagues,voted it in.No way,no how you can put that off on anybody but the YX pilot group.What's that,you say,never saw this coming ? Neither did we.How exactly does one "encounter" a "bunch" of RAH pilots,hmmm ? Are you stalking them ?

"I know everyone will call BS and say I wouldn't leave my job, but I can assure you that unless Republic payrates are greater than or equal to what I was making at Midwest I will not accept a recall at Republic."

Yep,I did call BS,so might as well resign your seniority now,because the payrates won't be that.Try again.

 

[BORG]

Where to begin with you ? Here's a gem:

"I believe the term is used too often and too carelessly, but while they don't meet the strict definition of scabs, the end result was exactly the same..."

So why mention the word scab,hmmm ? Because you like to imply that RAH pilots are some kind of "pseudo-scab".And you're dumbfounded when someone doesn't take kindly to it ? But wait,there's more ! How about the "morons that took our jobs" statement ? And it surprises you that someone might kinda,sorta not like it ? Need more,dimbulb ?

"To answer your question... I personally would refuse to do a job that someone else was doing the day before for twice as much money. Forget the ethical implications of "stealing" another person's job, but from a strictly selfish point of view it would drive me crazy to think I SHOULD be making twice as much money."

Job stealers ! Ok,so RAH pilots are job stealing,pseudo-scab morons,that's what you've established.Oh and sniff-sniff,kinda gets me right here,that you would walk off the job.I can hear "Proud To Be An American" playing in the background as you walk up the jetbridge....Bull,I don't believe a word of it.Another gem:

"What I have noticed is that many regional pilots are quick to blame majors for not holding onto scope. I would pose the question: Why is that the sole responsibility of the majors? "

Oh,wait wait,I know this one ! Because they basically own the flying ! They have say-so over it. So,who IS to blame for YOUR crappy scope clause ? YOU ! You,or your colleagues,voted it in.No way,no how you can put that off on anybody but the YX pilot group.What's that,you say,never saw this coming ? Neither did we.How exactly does one "encounter" a "bunch" of RAH pilots,hmmm ? Are you stalking them ?

"I know everyone will call BS and say I wouldn't leave my job, but I can assure you that unless Republic payrates are greater than or equal to what I was making at Midwest I will not accept a recall at Republic."

Yep,I did call BS,so might as well resign your seniority now,because the payrates won't be that.Try again.

Dude, I was enjoying a grown-up discussion with Skyboy and then you jump back in and stir the sh!t. I regret the name-calling and apologize for the "moron" comment. I have acknowledged your pilot group was in a difficult position. I suspect you and I have more in common than we might think...

With that said, I stand by my scab analogy (due to the effect your pilot group had on our negotiations) and my statement that YOU should know better.

I hope the rest of your pilot group doesn't share your mentality on payrates. If you don't DEMAND mainline pay for mainline flying then you ARE pathetic (see I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not pathetic now).

As for my encounters with Republic pilots, you seem to forget that I am still a pilot and still use airports. In fact I ride the van from the Hilton at MCI to the terminal fairly regularly and typically encounter at least one crewmember when I do. You may not know it, but a significant number of your pilots park there...

I apologize for the lack of civility in some of my posts and I acknowledge that you have raised some valid points (it's telling that you can't do the same). I have managed to avoid regional airlines to this point in my career, have recall rights at NetJets and have found full-time employment outside of aviation (as well as work as a contract pilot), so you don't need to worry about me coming back to work for Republic for regional wages. I hope for your sake (and that of my former Midwest brothers and sisters) that you are able to secure better pay and lift up the industry rather than hold it down. I'm ready to hang up my arguing hat and agree to disagree about the rest.

 

[Bluestreak]

Just one thing:

"I hope the rest of your pilot group doesn't share your mentality on payrates."

From where did you ever derive my "mentality" on pay rates ? If you knew me,you would in fact find that I am highly unsatisfied with our payrates ! JetBlue set the standard on this airframe and anything less is an unsat.The "mentality" you mention is from the "stepping stone" kids who will work for anything just to get on with a major,so they don't really care what it pays ! As long as they get their 1000 PIC and go elswhere,hey they're good with it ! They're only squawking about it now because nobody is hiring and the student loans from Perdue,et. al. are expensive.Capiche ? I just wonder: We have some USAir J4J guys still here-are they scabs as well ?

 

[BORG]

Just one thing:

"I hope the rest of your pilot group doesn't share your mentality on payrates."

From where did you ever derive my "mentality" on pay rates ? If you knew me,you would in fact find that I am highly unsatisfied with our payrates ! JetBlue set the standard on this airframe and anything less is an unsat.The "mentality" you mention is from the "stepping stone" kids who will work for anything just to get on with a major,so they don't really care what it pays ! As long as they get their 1000 PIC and go elswhere,hey they're good with it ! They're only squawking about it now because nobody is hiring and the student loans from Perdue,et. al. are expensive.Capiche ?

You said:

"Yep,I did call BS,so might as well resign your seniority now,because the payrates won't be that.Try again."

If you can't get 99 seat rates equal to or greater than what Midwest was making you are doing a great disservice not only to the former YX pilots, but also to the entire industry.

 

[Bluestreak]

You said:

"Yep,I did call BS,so might as well resign your seniority now,because the payrates won't be that.Try again."

If you can't get 99 seat rates equal to or greater than what Midwest was making you are doing a great disservice not only to the former YX pilots, but also to the entire industry.

A clarification is needed: You would be recalled BEFORE any new payrates are voted on,since a contract is at least a year or two away.YX pilots are in class right now.So no,the payrates won't be equal to the old YX rates for NOW.