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regional vs. fractional?

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fly26

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
109
Hypothetical Question:

If you had an offer from a solid regional (eg. AWAC, ACA) and an offer from NetJets, which would you take? Why?
 
NetJets for sure. That's just my .02. Less chance of furlough in the future with NetJets. The way the airlines are you can have a job today and be flying your couch at home tomorrow. Nothing is for sure but the Frac's are doing a lot better than the regional's. Good Luck in whatever you choose.
 
The question is: What is your ultimate goal? Corporate or Airline

If you want to be a corporate pilot, then you'd probally be better off at Netjets. The experience in corporate aircraft that you obtain will be priceless.

If you want to fly for a Major someday, then your best bet is probally to go to a regional.

Not to say you could never cross-over, but, you should have a goal and go for it. To say that the Fracs are more stable than the Regionals right now is probally something that can't be predicted. There are just too many factors involved here. Just because Netjets has been growing, doesn't mean they will continue to do so. If this economy dips into a second recession here, some of these rich folks may start to reconsider their big toys such as the Frac Jet. I think either opportunity will be good and you don't have a crystal ball, so go with the one you think will get you to where you ultimately want to be.

Choose and then don't look back again. Trust me on that one!

Good Luck,
JetPilot500
 
JetPilot500 said:
If you want to fly for a Major someday, then your best bet is probably to go to a regional.

Misconception #1
Back when the majors were hiring, Netjets pilots were found very desirable to many of the major carriers. The majors are very familiar with Netjets’ flight operations, which differ vastly from typical corporate operators, and more closely resemble a FAR121 operation.

To say that the Fracs are more stable than the Regionals right now is probably something that can't be predicted.

Misconception #2
Netjets is one of the most stable things in the industry at the present time. Definitely more stable than some of the majors in the current climate.

Just because Netjets has been growing, doesn't mean they will continue to do so. If this economy dips into a second recession here, some of these rich folks may start to reconsider their big toys such as the Frac Jet.

Now this is sort of ironic. For the last few years, all the frac pilots heard in the FBOs was, "Just wait ‘til the economy goes down and you guys will be out of work." Well, the economy went down and business continued to grow. So now we should wait for a "second recession?"

Choose and then don't look back again. Trust me on that one!

This I do agree with.
Choose your options, do a lot of research, and talk to as many pilots at those companies as possible. I will add that of the few dozen former commuter and major pilots (furloughed) that I have flown with, none plan on leaving Netjets even when things do turn around.

Good luck
NJA Capt
 
NJA Capt wrote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To say that the Fracs are more stable than the Regionals right now is probably something that can't be predicted.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Misconception #2
Netjets is one of the most stable things in the industry at the present time. Definitely more stable than some of the majors in the current climate.

JetPilot opined that saying either one was more stable than the other was probably impossible to predict accurately. Why is that a misconception? Just because you say Netjets is "one of the most stable things in the industry" doesn't automatically make it so. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. I dunno, but just because you say so doesn't make him wrong. Give me some stats, maybe some growth projections, balance sheets, something. Inquiring minds want to know.


"Definitely more stable than some of the majors in the current climate."

Apples to oranges. The comparison stated was regional to fractional, not majors to fractional.

What's my point? Don't just say the other guy is wrong and assume that it's a fact. Make your case. Offer an opposing argument and support it with a thesis or some type of rationale. I'm not suggesting that you aren't correct, you just haven't given us anything to consider other than an unsupported blanket statement.

Best wishes.
 
The other thing to think about is what kind of things the job actually entails you doing.

The regionals (at least mine) you pretty much show up, do some paper work, fly the airplane, and go home.

If there's something broken, you write it up and call MX. If something needs to be restocked in the galley, the F/A deals with it. If the lav needs to be dumped, you call Ops on the radio and some un happy guy with a long rubber glove comes over and dumps it for you.

At most fracs, the way I understand it, the crews deal with all this kind of stuff. Which may not be a bad thing, depending on your point of view, it's just one of the many differences in the day to day operations of the jobs.

Another consideration might be base location. I really don't know what the base locations for the fracs are, or what their policy is about living in a city other than your base. At the regionals, you can pretty much commute from where ever you like as long as you show up for work on time.

Which brings up the other big difference; non rev travel and J/S. Most regional pilots can jumpseat on anyone, but most frac guys can not, due to them not having a recip agreement. Also, at most regionals, you and your family get non rev benifits on not only your airline, but usually whatever major your airline codeshares with.

I'm not saying one route is better than the other, they both have + and -

I wouldn't leave my regional job to go to a frac, but I have friends at several different fracs, most of whom are ex regional guys, and they're all very happy they made the switch.
 
Jetpilot 500 wrote:
If you want to be a corporate pilot, then you'd probally be better off at Netjets.


I find it interesting that you consider Netjets a "stepping stone" type job. I was thinking that if I was hired by NetJets, I could make a career with them. But it appears that for the career minded one would need to find a desirable corporate operation. Is that what you're saying?
 
Caveman said:
Just because you say Netjets is "one of the most stable things in the industry" doesn't automatically make it so. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. I dunno, but just because you say so doesn't make him wrong. Give me some stats, maybe some growth projections, balance sheets, something. Inquiring minds want to know.

Stats? For goodness sake man....Pick up any Pro Pilot, B&CA, AIN, Flying or AOPA magazine for the last 4 years or your latest Berkshire Hathaway Shareholders' report.
350+ jets with 700 more on order.
Never stopped hiring, even after 9/11
Never slowed jet deliveries, even after 9/11
1700 pilots with three newhire classes per month.
Hiring projections consistent for the next 5 years.

Please note, I didn't ask him to believe me. I recommended he do some legwork to verify "my opinion."


"Definitely more stable than some of the majors in the current climate."

Apples to oranges. The comparison stated was regional to fractional, not majors to fractional.

True, but I was drawing the conclusion that not even the majors are the most stable place to be. Much less some of the commuters.

I'm not suggesting that you aren't correct, you just haven't given us anything to consider other than an unsupported blanket statement.

Again, I recommended personal research to verify my claim.
 
NJA Capt wrote:

"350+ jets with 700 more on order.
Never stopped hiring, even after 9/11
Never slowed jet deliveries, even after 9/11
1700 pilots with three newhire classes per month.
Hiring projections consistent for the next 5 years."

Now that I have something to work with I can see that your claim appears to have some merit. Remember, I never said you were incorrect. I just didn't have any info to evaluate your statement. At this point if I have some doubts it's my responsibility to verify your data.

If you were to state that Hank Aaron was the greatest homerun hitter of all time and I wasn't a baseball fan I would say, "Oh yeah, why?"

If you said that Hank Aaron was the greatest homerun hitter of all time because he hit more than anybody else I would say, "Oh, that makes sense."

Same with fractionals vs regional airlines. I don't know that much about fractionals so when you state that they are very stable I say, "Oh yeah, why?". Now I know. Thanks.
 
CF34-3B1 said:
The regionals (at least mine) you pretty much show up, do some paper work, fly the airplane, and go home.
Same at NetJets.

If there's something broken, you write it up and call MX. If something needs to be restocked in the galley, the F/A deals with it. If the lav needs to be dumped, … some unhappy guy with a long rubber glove comes over and dumps it for you.
Same at NetJets.

Another consideration might be base location. I really don't know what the base locations for the fracs are, or what their policy is about living in a city other than your base. At the regionals, you can pretty much commute from where ever you like as long as you show up for work on time.
Same at NetJets.
With crew bases (gateways) at the following airports with more expected in the future. Columbus, OH; Bradley, CT; Teterboro, NJ; Washington Dulles; Atlanta, GA; Orlando, FL; Minneapolis/St. Paul; Denver, CO; Dallas, TX; Las Vegas, NV; Boston, MA; San Diego, CA; Seattle, WA; Midway, IL; Pittsburgh, PA; West Palm Beach, FL; St. Louis, MO; Los Angeles, CA; San Francisco, CA; Salt Lake City, UT; New Orleans, LA; Charlotte, NC; Jacksonville, FL; Detroit, MI; Phoenix, AZ.

Which brings up the other big difference; non rev travel and J/S. Most regional pilots can jumpseat on anyone, but most frac guys can not, due to them not having a recip agreement. Also, at most regionals, you and your family get non rev benefits on not only your airline, but usually whatever major your airline codeshares with.

Misconception #3
Netjets DOES have jumpseat agreements. Although on limited carriers. But, they do exist.

Jumpseat travel is not necessary because the company pays for "real" tickets to position crews for duty. As part of our the duty day I might add.

We use frequent flyer points to travel space positive in lieu of non-rev. In my opinion, much more dependable than wondering if you will make it to or from your family vacation. We average 50+ airline segments per year. Which leaves a person with quite an abundance of points.

I wouldn't leave my regional job to go to a frac, but I have friends at several different fracs, most of whom are ex regional guys, and they're all very happy they made the switch.

No problem. Some guys are happy at the Regionals, some are happy at the fracs. I have talked to several frac pilots who only went to a commuter to gain time to apply to NetJets. Can you believe that? using a commuter as a stepping stone to a fractional. That speaks volumes.

Originally posted by CCDiscoB
I find it interesting that you consider Netjets a "stepping stone" type job. I was thinking that if I was hired by NetJets, I could make a career with them. But it appears that for the career minded one would need to find a desirable corporate operation. Is that what you're saying?

You may absolutely use NetJets as a career destination. More and more people are realizing that everyday. As I posted above to Caveman, I have talked to several frac pilots who only went to a commuter to gain time, in order to work for NetJets. There are plenty of "quality" corporate operator out there, and would still make an excellent career. However, the fractionals in most cases will offer more rapid upgrade and more choices of types of aircraft and flight profiles.
 
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