Regional jets: Reign over Part 2

[Flightdawg]

I have gotten enough attitude from their group to last a life time.

AAflyer

(Prior Simmons)

Does this mean it's okay for you to act like an immature jerk? Where's the leadership from the World's Greatest Pilots?

 

[AAflyer]

Does this mean it's okay for you to act like an immature jerk? Where's the leadership from the World's Greatest Pilots?

WHy not.... I have repeatedly held the higher ground, and to what end... Nothing, zip nadda... After awhile you cut your losses...

Worlds Greatest Pilot, that sign is for the Eagle Pilots.

 

[crj567]

Why not staple Eagle such that the APA would have more direct control over work rules and working conditions- keeping all would be outsourced flying "in house"? Regionals don't have to grow at the expense of mainline. However, we continue to allow it given our current mindset.

Well, the obvious answer to the "staple" question is: Because all the Eagle guys would be out on the street, behind about 2,000 mainline guys.
Anyone at Eagle would be quite the dumbass to agree to a plain staple.

-Duh

 

[maru657]

LOL. It's a shame that some airlines cut the safety buffer down to the point where it requires a government fix. The main reason why something wasn't done before was due to organizations like ATA and RAA which used their lobbying power to advocate rules which maximized profits. All to often, the relation between safety and profits is an inverse relationship. The Colgan crash epitomized many of the problems in our industry.

This summnation sounds spot on. Of course it's also due to the shortsightedness of people like Randy Babbitt who backed the growth of the regional movement and ALPA policy condoning such, all of the way back to Clancy Sayen. This, despite immediate evidence that this would undermine all of the safety gains made by ALPA up to that point. ALPA's motto used to be schedule with safety, now it's just a sad joke.

 

[beagle pilot]

Well, the obvious answer to the "staple" question is: Because all the Eagle guys would be out on the street, behind about 2,000 mainline guys.
Anyone at Eagle would be quite the dumbass to agree to a plain staple.

Agreed. Although our younger, less experienced pilots see it as a career short cut, in the end, it'd be a career killer.

 

[beagle pilot]

This summnation sounds spot on. Of course it's also due to the shortsightedness of people like Randy Babbitt who backed the growth of the regional movement and ALPA policy condoning such, all of the way back to Clancy Sayen. This, despite immediate evidence that this would undermine all of the safety gains made by ALPA up to that point. ALPA's motto used to be schedule with safety, now it's just a sad joke.

Agreed that there was some short-sightedness in the past, but to their credit, several saw the writing on the wall shortly after the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 was passed. It's called fighting a losing battle. Sometimes those battles should be fought purely on principle, but most of the time fighting them is purely a waste of time and money. Better to run away and fight another day in those cases. The present-day CEO of American Airlines, Gerard Arpey, wrote his 1982 MBA thesis on the factors in play after deregulation: The Airline Industry in Transition -- from Regulation to Deregulation

Laying the blame of the present plight of pilots at the feet of ALPA is not only unfair, it's is lacking a total picture of the problem, IMHO.

 

[beagle pilot]

Does this mean it's okay for you to act like an immature jerk? Where's the leadership from the World's Greatest Pilots?

Yes, it does. Hence the common definitions of their acronyms as "Arrogant (Anal)holes" and the "Arrogant Phallus Association".

 

[JumpersAway]

Well, the obvious answer to the "staple" question is: Because all the Eagle guys would be out on the street, behind about 2,000 mainline guys.
Anyone at Eagle would be quite the dumbass to agree to a plain staple.

-Duh

So there'd be a staple and they'd park all the airplanes too????????

 

[Draginass]

Why not staple Eagle such that the APA would have more direct control over work rules and working conditions- keeping all would be outsourced flying "in house"? Regionals don't have to grow at the expense of mainline. However, we continue to allow it given our current mindset.

Because lacking an incentive (such as massive concessions by AA pilots), I doubt that AA would even consider it. It's not just up to the APA, it's up to AMR. In addition, there are other workgroups that work for cut-rate pay such as the flight attendants and mechanics.

That said, AMR has a day of reckoning coming with the 50 seat RJ rapidly becoming obsolete. I doubt that AE will be viable even as subsidized owned feeder with 47 70-seat class airplanes and whatever routes are still viable with a 50 seat airplane. The APA is in no mood to give any more concessions on scope, especially after losing the recent arbitration on the "secret verbal agreement options" on the last of 47 70-seaters permitted. AMR has demanded even further scope concessions in the new contract negotiations in a 1 for 1 replacement of the 50 seaters with 70 seaters. As you can imagine, that is a non-starter for AA pilots. That would go even beyond the sickly scope protections that DALPA (bankruptcy contract) has now.

The other part of this is the requirement for a 100-seat class airplane which will become in-ignorable soon. I think AA is holding off on that and will attempt to use it to try and get the union to negotiate against itself, which won't work.

Lots of moving parts in this morass. For right now, AA has been stone-walling for a couple of years now (won't even discuss pay rates), apparently satisfied with the current 9-11 concessionary contract. APA wants compensation and scope restoration to pre 9-11 levels while AMR wants an even worse than DALPA bankruptcy contract, only without the disadvantages of fabricating a BK. The meeting will be somewhere in the middle, but certainly more than the current contract, and certainly no more scope concessions.

 

[crj567]

So there'd be a staple and they'd park all the airplanes too????????

Well think about it..... With these guys at the bottom of the AA list, who would now be furloughed? Some guy with 25 years at eagle would now hit the street. Sound fair?

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Well think about it..... With these guys at the bottom of the AA list, who would now be furloughed? Some guy with 25 years at eagle would now hit the street. Sound fair?

Did any of these 25 year eagle pilots ever try to get hired at a major or did they get too "comfortable.?"

 

[AAflyer]

Yes, it does. Hence the common definitions of their acronyms as "Arrogant (Anal)holes" and the "Arrogant Phallus Association".

My point exactly....Who is acting immature now.. Would not expect anything less from you. You wonder why I have given up...

 

[AAflyer]

Did any of these 25 year eagle pilots ever try to get hired at a major or did they get too "comfortable.?"

Too easy to answer. They played the game, lost, and now want to change the rules. Just like the 65ers.. This industry is loaded with self serving individuals.

AA

 

[Flightdawg]

Yes, it does. Hence the common definitions of their acronyms as "Arrogant (Anal)holes" and the "Arrogant Phallus Association".

Ha ha. They do have a certain reputation in the industry. What I find even more ridiculous is their slow taxi program which holds every one up but when cleared for take-off LOOK OUT! They go like banshees. Has anyone ever looked to see if blocking other pilots on the taxi way actually affected AA's arrival and departure times? Don't they even care they are only causing other pilots to hate them?

WHy not.... I have repeatedly held the higher ground, and to what end... Nothing, zip nadda... After awhile you cut your losses...

Most people's character is set in early adulthood. If you think you held the high ground and then gave up, that's fine.