Regional FOs: Check out NetJets

[DX Rick]

The idea of being the chauffeur for a bunch of spoiled new money types straight out of MTV's "Sweet 16" makes me wanna hurl. I'd rather haul 50 rednecks from DEN to LIT any day. I'm sure their are plenty of limo drivers who make over $65K and get fat tips catering to rich people too but it doesn't mean I want to go drive a limo. No disrespect to the frac pilots it's just that some of us acutally prefer the flying greyhound bus.

From what I have heard from family and friends who fly coperate/fractionals and pt. 91......the likely hood of getting a complete ass, is pretty low.
I love as the passengers board, getting smart little comments from the penut gallery as they board "About time you showed up, y'all get lost!?"

"You Union workers are the laziest on the planet" (When NWA was cancelling all their flights and local media was saying it was becuase of thier Union)

and the other day, delayed 3 hours because we were reduced to 8hours of rest "Thanks for making me late for my connection, I hope you got all the rest you needed last night! Porbably just laying in the hotel room all morning watching TV"

 

[Buddro]

Some reasons I chose to avoid the fracs:

1. I would hate 7 on 7 off. There's limited flexibility and 7 days gone is too long for me.

2. Long term I'll make better money at a major airline. Fracs pilots do a little better early on but a major airline pilot will probably do better in the long run. YMMV.

3. I'm lazy. I like having dispatch, rampies, fuelers, lav dumpers, baggage handlers, etc, etc. Tell me where I'm going, give me the paperwork, load it up, pull the chocks and send me on my way. When I get to my destination somebody else can unload it, service it and put the airplane to bed while I head for the hotel. I know that's lame, but you gotta give me points for being honest.

4. Hanging around the FBO for hours at a time blows.

5. Not knowing what's next is like permanent reserve. I like to know what I'm doing tomorrow so I can plan my rest, exercise and food.

6. I like to actually fly the plane half the legs. Some of the fracs have weird rules about letting the FO fly only the repo legs. Conversly, when I'm the CA I don't want to do most of the flying. 50/50 works best for me.

7. I like having some extra room in the cockpit. It's nice to be able to stand up and stretch a bit. Besides I don't think I'd like feeling like I have to tiptoe around in the back like I shouldn't be there or I'm intruding on the VIPs personal space. I want to be able to stroll down the aisle anytime I feel the need to.

8. I like having FAs to deal with the folks during the flight. I only get involved if there's an issue.

9. I like to catch up on a little reading when I get the chance. I read on a thread recently where one of the fracs has a real hardon about extraneous reading material. Six hour transcons just staring out the window blows.

Let's be clear: this is not a slam on the fracs. It's just some reasons why I decided I wouldn't like that kind of flying. Hey, if frac flying is your cup of tea, go for it. Enjoy. Everybody is different, but I know it wouldn't work for me. I'm sure there's plenty about airline flying that a frac dude wouldn't like either. To each his own.

I'll bite....I'm glad you like the airlines...you're right, the frac flying is not for everyone but you should be putting out info that is CORRECT. Looks like your mis-informed on the job we do.

We don't file flightplans, we don't empty lavs, we don't fuel planes and most of all if we don't wont to load bags we simply "tip" the FBO rampies to load them for us and turn it in to the company for reimbursement.

So in all reality the job isn't that much different than that of the airlines other than you have to clean after people get off....most of the time it's not even dirty, but other times I just pay the rampies to clean it for me.....

Different strokes for different folks, but people need to truly know the differences.

The best thing for me is the job stability.

NO AIRLINE is as stable as Netjets.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Not sure what regional your working at, (Very sure it doesn't exist) but 65k for first officer position is a lot to brag about!

Also, have you tried non-Reving, or given out a buddy pass, don't think they would want to be your buddy after that trip!! Planes are full to CAPACITY!!

What a disingenuous comment. My observations:

1. You haven't been on this forum very long, or very much. I work for ASA and most here know that. I'm fairly certain that ASA still exists.

2. You have no clue how the airlines work. No regional FO makes $65k. I took home $65 as a captain last year, and I assure you, it doesn't go as far as a lot of people think.

3. You have no clue how non-revving on an airline works. I HAVE tried non-revving "once or twice" in my 8 years working for an airline, lol. and yes, the planes are always full in the last few years. You can't count on getting a seat, even with high priority. With our new low priority, the pass benefits are useless.

 

[kman]

4.29 for milk in dallas

 

[Buddro]

4.29 for milk in dallas

Maybe at the local 711,or gas station.....but the grocery store brand....come on!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Maybe at the local 711,or gas station.....but the grocery store brand....come on!

In the Atlanta area it's in the high $4 range. That's at the major chain grocery stores. The gub'ment claims it's because of the rising cost of corn due to the ethanol surge.

They fail to mention the weakness of the dollar, now at a 25 year low, even below the Loonie!

 

[Buddro]

In the Atlanta area it's in the high $4 range. That's at the major chain grocery stores. The gub'ment claims it's because of the rising cost of corn due to the ethanol surge.

They fail to mention the weakness of the dollar, now at a 25 year low, even below the Loonie!

Unreal....I thought we had it bad here at $2.50 - $2.99 a gallon.

Interesting to say the least...

 

[RP170]

If you don't have the ATP, that just takes a quick few days at AllATPs.

That's exactly what I did. I'm starting at NJ this coming Monday about 6 months later. I knew pay raises were potentially coming but didn't realize they would be as large as they are proposed to be. 100 new cities as domiciles as well. Let the floodgates open for apps. I'm glad I got in when I did. Good luck to all that apply.

 

[RP170]

From one of the fractional threads. Gives you an idea of some of the benefits for a first year FO at NJA:



And our first year FO's just got a 17k yr raise and 100 cities to choose from.

First day on the property every new FO will make $69,188 per yr BASE. If they elect to work 18 days a month this will be their yearly salary. If they decide to work 7and7 they will be paid $56,875 BASE yearly for the remaining 8 months.

They will pay $0 for medical, dental, vision, loss of faa medical, long and short term disability.

They will get 50% matching on their 401k contributions.

They will get paid $480 extra for every holiday they work. These holidays include President's Day, Labor day, Memorial Day, Good Friday and Easter, Martin Luther Kings day and of course the "big ones" like Xmas and 4th of July.

They will get paid $480 for every extra day they choose to work.

They will get $960 if they company fails to return them to their home base by midnight on their last day. They will get compensatory time off the start of their next tour. This includes late airlines, airline mx, severe weather...ANY REASON. Also they will not be required to travel past 14 hours on their last day. If they choose not to go over 14 hours they will be provided with a hotel and sent home on the first available flight the next morning and paid the $960 and comp time.

They will make an extra 8-15% above the base salary numbers in hourly OT and holiday pay.

They will have no training contract.

They will keep all hotel and airline points.

They will all have meals provided by the company at no cost while on flying duty while getting paid $40.80 a day in per diem. These menus include steak, salmon, satay beef, stuffed french toast and PBandJ .

Their standard hotel on the road will include free internet, will most likely be a Hilton, Marriott, Crowne Plaza, or Double Tree. They will be Hilton Diamond members from the first day they are a pilot for Netjets.

They will get 12 paid time off days per year PLUS 14 days paid vacation.

 

[Long Time Gone]

You're on CRACK to say milk is $4.79 in ATL. Maybe in NYC but in ATL.....It's a bit exaggerated, ya think?

We're all on crack in ATL.

Nope, he's not exaggerating. It's $4.79 a gallon for Publix brand milk and Mayfield Farms is well over $5.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I thought NJ guys ONLY stayed at Hilton brand?

I CAN see how they might be full at a particular location, and you have to stay non-Hilton-is that the deal?

cliff
YIP

PS-I've JS and non-revved all over the place the last 5 years. I've never had a trip that didn't work. When the family goes on vacation, they normally buy tickets, and I JS-it always works out for us.
Note: We only have family travel with Midwest, and that only started about 6 months ago.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Atlanta. And milk costs ~$4.79 here now.

That's cause you're drinking that fancy hippy organic milk

 

[Heavy Set]

Why Milk Is Expensive...

FYI - Milk is more expensive now because the corn used in the cow feed is also being used for ethanol production (to replace expensive gasoline). So, corn costs have increased for farmers too and this translates into higher milk costs for customers. The farmers want to protect their margins so they pass the costs along to the consumers.

BTW, I'd take hauling a$$ in a Citation X from the NY area to Aspen carrying celebrities vs. flying cheap rednecks for LCCs or regionals any day... Who wants to fly the same routes to the same boring cities over and over again? Not me. 20+ years of flying for SWA, Jet Blue or Air Tran would drive me crazy with those quick turns and repetitive routes. That's no fun even if you get a good paycheck - work would become painful. But that's just me.

 

[Caveman]

I'll bite....I'm glad you like the airlines...you're right, the frac flying is not for everyone but you should be putting out info that is CORRECT. Looks like your mis-informed on the job we do.

We don't file flightplans, we don't empty lavs, we don't fuel planes and most of all if we don't wont to load bags we simply "tip" the FBO rampies to load them for us and turn it in to the company for reimbursement.

So in all reality the job isn't that much different than that of the airlines other than you have to clean after people get off....most of the time it's not even dirty, but other times I just pay the rampies to clean it for me.....

Different strokes for different folks, but people need to truly know the differences.

The best thing for me is the job stability.

NO AIRLINE is as stable as Netjets.

By your CORRECT comment you're implying I was way off base in my assessment of frac flying. Where exactly was I incorrect? O.k. so you don't actually dump the lav or actually refuel or actually load bags. You do, however, have to coordinate all that stuff. I'd prefer it just happens automatically. That was my point and it doesn't invalidate all the other points I made and all the other comments apply to me, not necessarily you. I never suggested otherwise.

Why so defensive? There is nothing wrong with frac flying. It's a good job. Pays well. Good bennies. Some positive points and some negative points. My negative may be your positive and vice versa. The same applies to airline flying. If for some reason I found myself at NJ I would be grateful to be working at an excellent company, I'd adapt to the requirements of the job and I'd make it a point to enjoy myself. I'm guessing that if the tables were turned you'd do the same at an airline job. In the current hiring market we have somewhat of a choice and for now I think I prefer airline flying. You prefer the fracs. Neither is right or wrong.

If you want to get picky there are airline jobs that are as stable and maybe even more stable than the fracs. FedEx, UPS and SWA come to mind. I'll agree that NJ is a very stable gig. Probably one of the most stable jobs in the business. It is vulnerable on some level though. Nobody, not even the mighty NJ is immune from the laws of business

 

[Buddro]

By your CORRECT comment you're implying I was way off base in my assessment of frac flying. Where exactly was I incorrect? O.k. so you don't actually dump the lav or actually refuel or actually load bags. You do, however, have to coordinate all that stuff. I'd prefer it just happens automatically. That was my point and it doesn't invalidate all the other points I made and all the other comments apply to me, not necessarily you. I never suggested otherwise.

Why so defensive? There is nothing wrong with frac flying. It's a good job. Pays well. Good bennies. Some positive points and some negative points. My negative may be your positive and vice versa. The same applies to airline flying. If for some reason I found myself at NJ I would be grateful to be working at an excellent company, I'd adapt to the requirements of the job and I'd make it a point to enjoy myself. I'm guessing that if the tables were turned you'd do the same at an airline job. In the current hiring market we have somewhat of a choice and for now I think I prefer airline flying. You prefer the fracs. Neither is right or wrong.

If you want to get picky there are airline jobs that are as stable and maybe even more stable than the fracs. FedEx, UPS and SWA come to mind. I'll agree that NJ is a very stable gig. Probably one of the most stable jobs in the business. It is vulnerable on some level though. Nobody, not even the mighty NJ is immune from the laws of business

No harm intended.....Please don't take it as such...

You're right....nothing is guaranteed, but I will leave my bets on NJA.

 

[Caveman]

No harm intended.....Please don't take it as such...

You're right....nothing is guaranteed, but I will leave my bets on NJA.

I think that's an excellent bet. There aren't very many jobs significantly better than NJ and most are a lot worse (airline and other fracs). You and I just disagree slightly on what kind of flying we each prefer. Nice talking to you.

 

[Buddro]

I think that's an excellent bet. There aren't very many jobs significantly better than NJ and most are a lot worse (airline and other fracs). You and I just disagree slightly on what kind of flying we each prefer. Nice talking to you.

Actually I prefer the 121/scheduled flying better, I just don't like the instability that goes along with it. I like job security for the sake of my family.

I went through a furlough after 9/11 and hope I NEVER have to do that again....

It was nice talking to you too.

 

[Diesel]

By your CORRECT comment you're implying I was way off base in my assessment of frac flying. Where exactly was I incorrect? O.k. so you don't actually dump the lav or actually refuel or actually load bags. You do, however, have to coordinate all that stuff. I'd prefer it just happens automatically.

Yeah that coordinating stuff is really hard. You pull up a clean professional line guy is standing at my airstairs to take my fuel order, take any trash for me, dump my lav, basically anything I need because we are paying them, plus tipping them.

Remember these are not your airline rampers, they are professionals who do a great job.

When 9/11 happened we kept on trucking, our owners have 5 year contracts so we're as stable as stable can be.

Yeah not knowing if I'm going to end up in LA or London is a hard part to get used to.

Different strokes different folks. Let's at least get the facts state of what goes on. Not what you hear in the cockpit as one of our shiny planes taxi by.

 

[IADBLRJ41]

I tip my hat to the NJA guys. This is great news for both 121 and Fractional pilots. If anything a mass exodus will cause the regional airliners to panic as the pilots move to NJA. This might be just the start for regionals to start paying more.

And I just woke up... But again nice job to the NetJets guys. I would for sure entertain this.

 

[John Pennekamp]

FYI - Milk is more expensive now because the corn used in the cow feed is also being used for ethanol production (to replace expensive gasoline). So, corn costs have increased for farmers too and this translates into higher milk costs for customers. The farmers want to protect their margins so they pass the costs along to the consumers.

That and the fact that the dollar is at a 25 year low. Even the Canuk is higher than the dollar now. 5 years ago it was almost $0.25 less.

When the dollar declines, it takes more of them to buy goods, especially in our "global economy". But of course, the government would rather have you believe it's the ethanol rather than them screwing up the economy.