Regional Captian Douchebag Syndrome-RCDS

[Bob Loblaw]

Maybe you should start a tool watch page
so we can see who spots the biggest jerk
of the day!

Man, are you asking for it.

Good post, though. It's a big shed...plenty of room for tools.

 

[Bluto]

things look very very different from the left. I found myself checking and worrying about crap that I didn't even know existed when I was in the right seat.

Ah, now I get it, because you were a weak FO you automatically assume your FO's are weak too.

FO are physical pilots. They have checklist to run, data to input and switches to move.
Capts. are in thier heads...
Within the flight deck, FOs are 'labor' and Capts are 'management.'

Yet again, a wise old Captain projecting his personal short-comings onto his FO's. I'm sure what you say is true of some junior FO's. I know it was for me when I first started out. But this attitude of "I'm the thinker, you're just the gear-yanker..." is just pathetic, and egotistical. The Captains I've flown with that appear to have that attitude were among the worst (thinkers, and flyers) I've flown with at any company. Why don't you Captains try to learn a little something from this post instead of belittling the guy/gal sitting next to you who may well have better or equal knowledge, experience, and/or flying skills than you.

Every flight I watch my Captain and decide if I will adopt, or avoid their actions. Thanks to you Captains for helping me know how not to act.

As an FO my life, as well as my certificate, are dependent on the proper decision-making of my Captains, as well as myself. To suggest that we are just sitting over there picking our noses while you make all the tough decisions is self-centered and condescending. If you don't involve your FO in all the deep, intellectual pursuits of your flight, it's your fault, not his.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Ah, now I get it, because you were a weak FO you automatically assume your FO's are weak too.

<<Shaking head>> Like I said, only someone who has never sat in the left seat would make statements like that.

You would think that a pilot might stop to think that if several guys who have made the transition from right to left at several different airlines all say the same thing and none are resorting to personal attacks or flame baiting that they may be speaking from experience. But I guess not. I guess you have to hand it to the training facilities out there now, they must be doing one heck of a job to be able to train F/O's to know more than all the line Captains out there. Boy am I glad that this new generation of F/O's is out there, I don't know how all these Captains would learn how to be Captains without their knowledge and leadership wisdom.

In fact, I think I will start pointing out everything that my Captains do that is different on my next trip. After all I served as Captain on several aircraft in the past, just because I now fly internationally in an 833k pound airplane which is far far different from the 100k pound domestic flying I used to do, that doesn't mean that I do not already know everything. Heck just do away with the most experienced guy in the cockpit, I don't need to learn anything from his years of international and widebody experience!

 

[BOHICAgain]

<<Shaking head>> Like I said, only someone who has never sat in the left seat would make statements like that.

In fact, I think I will start pointing out everything that my Captains do that is different on my next trip. After all I served as Captain on several aircraft in the past, just because I now fly internationally in an 833k pound airplane which is far far different from the 100k pound domestic flying I used to do, that doesn't mean that I do not already know everything. Heck just do away with the most experienced guy in the cockpit, I don't need to learn anything from his years of international and widebody experience!

Wow that must be the biggest regional jet ive ever heard off. Right? you must be a regional guy if ur chatting on the regional board

 

[General Lee]

FO to me during my brief..."My dad did is ..., I've done ...I have tons of experience doing ..., My upgrade should be in about six months...blah. blah. blah."

Me thinking I'm with Chuck Yeagers illigitimate son..."Alright...your leg."

Fo to me after shooting an approach which wasn't even CLOSE to minimums."Goddam....that was tight. I didn't think we'd get in...Wow....that was AWESOME..."

oooookkkkkkaaaaayyyyy.....

Like the guys above said...RCDS starts early before the move to the left seat.

(By the way, I'm DYING to fly in the right seat for General Lee).
Mookie

I would throw in this phrase, "And one time, at band camp......" And, if you were my FO you would have a blast. I will use the 50/50 rule for walk arounds----I will do the walk around 50% of the time when it is over 50 degrees. And, 1st and 4th beers are on me. We will have a blast on those Huntsville layovers!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PIREP]

A dang epidemic at Mesaba. "If you ain't from UND, you can't fly." - XJ Douchebag supreme!!!

Oh Yeah, I've witnessed more of those guys miss crossings than I can count. Nope, I don't say a thing. I just laugh my a$$ off. Its his name on the release. If we're a crew, then treat me as such.

So what you are saying is that the guy sitting next to you is screwing up and not only are you letting it happen, but you are laughing about it. Not much for CRM are you. Unbelievable. Last time I heard, both pilots up front can get gigged for screwing up. I think this falls into the same category as the employees that profess loudly "It's not MY job!." ...Sad. But guess what? It is your job to monitor each other up there. So I guess you are saying it's okay not to do your job professionally how you are trained? Who's the douchebag now?

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Wow that must be the biggest regional jet ive ever heard off. Right? you must be a regional guy if ur chatting on the regional board

Oops, I forgot, to be in a discussion on this forum you must be one of the "New" generation of super pilots. Sorry I forgot that anybody who flew for a Regional more than 8 years ago did not receive the new super special training that imparts years of flying experience in a classroom.

My mistake, I will try to do my best to not kill myself in a large airplane until a slot opens up for one of the new super pilots to come in as my F/O that can teach me what I have been doing wrong all these years.

Until then, is there a secret book that you can send me to help me add ten or twelve years of experience to my resume? Obviously I am lacking in knowledge in this area. It would be a great help since it is clear that I have been doing this the wrong way and there is nothing that I can learn from the Captains that I currently fly with.

 

[say again]

The reason why they don't respond right away to your self initiated check list is becuase they are thinking about the flight 20 minutes from now and what will need to be done.....

HAHA!!!:laugh: Me, I was thinking what should've been done 20 minutes AGO!!! :beer: Or, of course, about getting laid!!!imp:

 

[Jungle Prop]

What about superpilot F/O's. They have 3+ plus years seniority and think they are being screwed because they havent upgraded yet. They think its not cool to use checklists, request lower altitudes without discussing it, and just constantly bitch about how they can fly better than half the captains out there. This syndrome works both ways.

 

[WickedPissa]

If your crew upon reaching the overnight is constantly “tired” “not hungry” or “going to catch up on my F.O.M. reading tonight” instead of going out and having a few beers with you”-you may have RCDS


You might want to take a look at yourself if your crews "constantly" don't want to hang out with you. Also, if you are being corrected that much, there is probably a reason.

 

[Bluto]

This syndrome works both ways.

Yes it does.

 

[Bluto]

You would think that a pilot might stop to think that if several guys who have made the transition from right to left at several different airlines all say the same thing and none are resorting to personal attacks or flame baiting that they may be speaking from experience.

You do realize it took about 4 pages of this thread before the self-righteous Captains showed up to bring us all back in line. This thread was meant in fun, and if the unreasonable, yet common, behaviours listed apply to you maybe you should consider a change. I really don't care if you fly the space shuttle or a C-152, it's the attitude that belittles FO's that bothers me.

Honestly, I feel sorry for you if you had to fly with such low-quality FO's. In a world of good CRM, FO's can be involved in all of the flight-critical decisions Captains make, as well. Failing to involve them is a failure by the captain, effectively robbing the FO of important experience.

 

[Lear70]

In almost 5 years here at PCL, I've only had the displeasure of flying with F/O's that had attitude / flying ability problems 3 times. That's 3 in literally hundreds of First Officers... possibly as low as 1.5%. 2 of them don't work here anymore - they were terminated while on probation, so the system (for the most part) works.

I believe at just about every airline the "problem children" are an anomally, on BOTH sides of the cockpit.

And no disrespect intended Bluto, but the last paragraph in the ORIGINAL first post was NOT intended as a "joke" or "just in good fun"... the beginning part was, but it sounded in the last part as if that F/O had just had a really bad trip and was venting... which is pretty standard here at Flightinfo.

In a world of good CRM, FO's can be involved in all of the flight-critical decisions Captains make, as well. Failing to involve them is a failure by the captain, effectively robbing the FO of important experience.

More than that, it's the Captain robbing HIMSELF of a way to relieve workload during a critical situation that requires his complete attention, thereby jeopardizing the safety of the flight.

Only had to tell an F/O to basically "shut up and sit still" during a flight once... he got panicky when we were holding outside of STL with over an hour of fuel left and t-storms moving off the field. Just low experience, but a bad habit of being too assertive without the experience and knowledge to back it.

Sometimes you gotta "be the boss", but most of the time the F/O has nearly as much, and sometimes (in this day and age of major airline furloughs) MORE experience to contribute to safely completing a flight.

 

[propjockey]

No one who has served in the left seat would make some of the statements that the F/O's here are making. Sure there are bad Captains out there, but when it is your name on the release, and your professional A$$ on the line, things look very very different from the left. I found myself checking and worrying about crap that I didn't even know existed when I was in the right seat.

I've been in both seats (currently in the right again), and find most of these things to be true. Fortunately there aren't very many of these guys at my airline -- but there are definitely a few!

Someone also mentioned that new captains are easier to fly with. On average, I have to disagree there (of course there are always exceptions). Sometimes they're new to the plane and it's almost like doing an extension of IOE for them. I have no problem with that as long as they're cool about it -- it's actually a lot of fun showing them the ropes and helping them get up to speed. Some are merely paranoid. Since they can't trust themselves, they also cannot trust anyone else. Some are newly-minted ego maniacs, in the beginning stages of RCDS. When you get a paranoid new captain who is ALSO an ego maniac, you're in for a really fun month!!

 

[Bluto]

Excellent points Lear70.

KeronseneSnorter, nobody here has suggested that FO's have nothing to learn from their Captains. On the contrary, if you don't learn something from every Captain you fly with, I think you're wasting time. Even (especially?) the really bad Captains have things to offer, if only examples of what not to do.

I think it's unreasonable that belittling FO's is considered acceptable, but if you dare cross the line and suggest that CA's do stupid things too, you get immediately slapped down and told you just don't understand, "Poor, stupid FO, I could explain it to you, but you just wouldn't understand."

I am certain that my perspective will change when I upgrade. I'm sure I'll be less relaxed than I am now, knowing my name is on the release. But I don't assume that as soon as I earn my 4th stripe that I will become the sole expert on the flight deck. I don't assume that I will suddenly (or even after 500hrs PIC, or whatever other arbitrary limit you choose) gain a substantially different view of things than I have now. I hope to learn a great deal as a Captain, but my fundamental view of my job shouldn't change. I consider myself responsible for every aspect of the flight now, just as I will when I upgrade. FO's that aren't conscious of wx or fuel planning, or dealing with operations or unruly passengers or medical emergencies or union drives or whatever other lofty, "captain-only" thoughts, need to be involved in those issues.

 

[jehtplane]

What about superpilot F/O's. They have 3+ plus years seniority and think they are being screwed because they havent upgraded yet. They think its not cool to use checklists, request lower altitudes without discussing it, and just constantly bitch about how they can fly better than half the captains out there. This syndrome works both ways.

So true.....

 

[BigPappa]

Okay, Okay,

This post is all about look at me being better than you! Let's go back to basics. In order for the flight to leave that requires a dual crew, guess what: you need to have TWO pilots. Therefore both pilots are important not just the Captain or the FO. Also, if someone fu#ks up (either one) you both take equal risk of loosing your ticket. So do your job and shut the fu#k up (both)!

PS. I have flown the left, the right, and single fighter seat and they all had the same importance to me. None of them was easier than the other.

 

[328dude]

Okay, Okay,

This post is all about look at me being better than you! Let's go back to basics. In order for the flight to leave that requires a dual crew, guess what: you need to have TWO pilots. Therefore both pilots are important not just the Captain or the FO. Also, if someone fu#ks up (either one) you both take equal risk of loosing your ticket. So do your job and shut the fu#k up (both)!

PS. I have flown the left, the right, and single fighter seat and they all had the same importance to me. None of them was easier than the other.

So true.......

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I think it's unreasonable that belittling FO's is considered acceptable, but if you dare cross the line and suggest that CA's do stupid things too, you get immediately slapped down and told you just don't understand, "Poor, stupid FO, I could explain it to you, but you just wouldn't understand."

I think that you are confusing my posts with some of the others here. I never said anything about belittling an F/O. In fact I never commented on any of the gripes on here except to say that "No one who has served in the left seat would make some of the statements that the F/O's here are making." Also I added that of course there are bad Captains out there.

Other than that I simply stated that things look very different when you are the guy in the left seat. If the simple fact that the Captain has absolute and final authority over the aircraft and crew belittles you as a first officer, well I cannot help you there.

CRM should be used, all crew resources should be used, but in the end if the Captain does not like the way you are doing something and wants you to fly the airplane his way (while abiding by the company SOP's) on that trip........well he is the dude in charge at the present time.

I have been in the right and the left, in big and small airplanes. If the guy in the left seat tries to kill you, it is your job to stop him. If he wants a certian decent profile......well it is also your job to comply with his instructions. Look it up in your SOP's, it is near the very beginning somewhere under the catagory of "Chain of Command"

Currently I am an F/O, I fly the thing the way I think it should be flown. If the PIC does not like it that way, I fly the thing the way he wants it as long as it complies with SOP's and safety. Why?...........Because he is the guy with the name on the release, and as far as the company or FAA is concerened, it is his airplane right up to the point where he starts to screw up, in which case it is still his airplane, but my job to point out that he is screwing up. The only way it becomes "MY" airplane or "MY" leg is when he dies or completly loses it and freaks out endangering the safety of flight.

The good Captains make the trip fun, the bad ones make it a long day, but in the end, it is ALWAYS their airplane. You deal with this and move on to the next day and put his name on your no fly list.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I have RCDS. I will not let an FO do anything to compromise my ticket or employment status. Don't like it? Too bad.

Contrary to popular belief, there is a reason quality airlines like to hire pilots with multi-crew PIC time. Being a laid-back regional FO doesn't really qualify you for much in my book.