Referral - want to make some $$$$money

[b747dogg]

Give the brother a break. 1800rvr flew the BAC and Diesel 8! I feel his pain.

 

[mar]

Two things...

One: Am I the only person bothered by 1800rvr's original post? He's offering to pay off a professional in order to leap frog the process while the rest of us patiently march thru the mud!!!

WTF?

Either this is flame-bait or...
Nah, this is flame-bait. This is his first post and in his profile he lists 11,000 hours but in his post he claims 14,000. How did he fly 3,000 hours between registering and posting? A significant discrepancy dontcha think? I'm sure he'll have a very good explanation.

I don't buy it. 1800rvr, Sir, if you're for real you should be cast out with the rest of the PFTers. A professional recommendation is NOT (shouldn't) be for SALE.

You have some balls.
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Two: Bobby, I haven't followed your story as close I could have but I've come to respect your posts over the years.

I used to work for man that claimed he would never hire a career changer. He had various reasons. Some made sense.

I believe the answer to your situation lies less with age and more with showing some longevity in the industry.

Don't get me wrong; some places will discriminate against age; but there are those who descriminate against the bio.

Best wishes.

 

[fly2002]

Ok ...i'm jumping in...

Ok i'm jumping in here...some people sound entirely different via email than they do in person. I know quite a few people that are extremely nice via email...but are complete D#CKS in person. Yeah...those guys have been my captains! Where are they? Flying Cargo for the bottom feeders. 135. Flight Instructing. With tons of hours...bitter.... Some have told me..."they should hire the most qualified" Ahhh....no...they just don't HIRE DI#KS!! I hear these people rant on and on. The road to a 121 job is littered with the bodies of those who never made it that are bitter. Am I an expert? No! Do I see these "dead" bodies every day on my way up the ladder? YES!!! As for the original post....although i'm sure this guys got good intentions lets face it....50 years old in aviation with no aviation buddies too call?....sounds like that "D" word i've been stating. I hope that's not true but reading these posts...well..you can never tell. Take care guys.

 

[bobbysamd]

Career-changer discrimination

Bobby, I haven't followed your story as close I could have but I've come to respect your posts over the years.

Thank you, my friend.

I used to work for man that claimed he would never hire a career changer. He had various reasons. Some made sense.

I believe the answer to your situation lies less with age and more with showing some longevity in the industry.

Don't get me wrong; some places will discriminate against age; but there are those who descriminate against the bio.

I have absolutely felt that I was discriminated against in part because I was a career changer. I have tried to make this point all along in my age discrimination writings.

I am sure that my background stumped H.R. I did not conform to their mold of the so-called "ideal" candidate. They did not know what to do with me, so they took the easy way out; they disregarded me. Or else they felt that I was not serious and branded me as a dilettante. Their thinking was that if I was as serious about aviation as I claimed I should have started when I was younger. This happened despite the fact that I had hit all the same gates as their younger applicants.

The solution to that dilemma would have been to meet me. Hopefully, I would have allayed every one of these "concerns." I say "concerns" because I feel they were an artificial bar in their minds for them to rationalize not considering me.

Having said all that, there are people who start off in other businesses but change careers to aviation and achieve their goals. The difference between them and me is they changed careers when they were younger. I did not, so I still believe there was an overlay of age discrimination in my case.

Once more, I had regional interviews. I was never asked why I decided to change careers. I never understood why they were not the least bit curious about my background. As far as longevity goes, I had been flying for nine years by the time I was ripe for the regionals. My younger colleagues might have been flight instructors for two years at the most when they were hired. They had instructed only long enough to build enough hours to meet regional minimums. Again, with flight instruction being all they had done as professional pilots.

Finally, once more I am amazed at the conclusions that can be drawn from just a resume and without even meeting or speaking with a person. Compare it to Carnack holding the sealed envelope to his head and already knowing the answer to the question contained in the envelope. H.R. clearly possesses the same power of clairvoyance.

 

[texanpilot]

Mar,

It's called "doing everything in your power to get what you want." You can, "pay your dues," while others are in the trenches duking it out to get what they want. Would I recommend someone for $$$, NO. But why not give it a shot? There are only a handful of jobs out there, and only the perisistant and clever will get a job.

 

[fly2002]

Thank you bobby

Bobby, I too have enjoyed your posts over the past year. You always seem to come to this board with honesty, maturity and don't mind answering questions of those that don't know. Wish everyone on here was like you.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

The horse that wouldn't die...

Bobby actually seems happy that he has company for his misery.


Anyway, lesson to be learned. Late-life career changes into commercial aviation go up against tough odds. One with 11,000 hours who is 51 will get hired somewhere. One who is 41 with mostly CFI time will have a tougher go of it. I wouldn't call it age discrimination, I'd call it hiring based on standards and desires for company fit. This guy will get hired. My guess is that if Bobby would have stuck with it, he'd be flying for an airline by now as well. Nobody can really say because he quit. I know that sounds like a dig on Bobby, not meant to be, just another view that bears consideration.

 

[bobbysamd]

Re: Thank you bobby

Bobby, I too have enjoyed your posts over the past year. You always seem to come to this board with honesty, maturity and don't mind answering questions of those that don't know. Wish everyone on here was like you.

You bet. Thanks for your kind comments.

 

[bobbysamd]

Misery loves company?

Bobby actually seems happy that he has company for his misery.

It's not a matter of happiness or sadness. Most everyone has doubted what I've said about age discrimination; it's more a matter of being vetted.

Anyway, lesson to be learned. Late-life career changes into commercial aviation go up against tough odds. One with 11,000 hours who is 51 will get hired somewhere. One who is 41 with mostly CFI time will have a tougher go of it.

All this is why when I read posts from potential career changers who are over a certain age that I advise against it, at least from the airline standpoint. That's been part of my message. But when I see someone who is in the same age bracket but appears to have good credentials I almost always encourage that person to keep trying.

I wouldn't call it age discrimination, I'd call it hiring based on standards and desires for company fit.

I have a friend who interviewed with a regional a few years ago. Our birthdays are within days of each other. I have no idea how he found this out, but he learned that he was not hired because of age. Ten years ago, we had lost our jobs at the same company within months of each other. As G-d is my judge, we lost our jobs because of spineless management, not by any act or commission on our parts. I went to paralegal school; he stuck with aviation. He has a ton of time and experience. He now flies single pilot 135 Caravan in New Mexico.

No, it is hiring based on stereotypes, hiring models, a greater interest in having to plow through tons of resumes rather than trying to qualify an applicant with potential, accompanied by ignorance and failure to think outside the box. It is assumed automatically that old dogs cannot be taught new tricks. Or that old dogs won't toe the company line. Or that old dogs want more money. Here again, any questions regarding these shibboleths can be addressed at the interview - if you can get an interview and it is conducted in good faith.

I appreciate everyone's comments on this subject, positive and negative, supportive and not. I hope the original poster will find something he likes.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

There's certainly a degree of validity to all these points.

 

[WrightAvia]

Yeah...those guys have been my captains! Where are they? Flying Cargo for the bottom feeders. 135. Flight Instructing. With tons of hours...bitter.... Some have told me..."they should hire the most qualified" Ahhh....no...they just don't HIRE DI#KS!! I hear these people rant on and on. The road to a 121 job is littered with the bodies of those who never made it that are bitter. Am I an expert? No! Do I see these "dead" bodies every day on my way up the ladder? YES!!! As for the original post....although i'm sure this guys got good intentions lets face it....50 years old in aviation with no aviation buddies too call?....sounds like that "D" word i've been stating. I hope that's not true but reading these posts...well..you can never tell. Take care guys.

I love how all these 1,200 hour career guidence counselors think they will never wind up like all their "bitter" mentors.

Hahaha...dude, till you're drawing your pension at age 60 from a major...you're talking SHlT.

 

[texanpilot]

No, but having 5200 hours makes you "the man." Nice job. You getting a pension?

 

[Dennis Miller]

I don't think I've seen a man this screwed since..............

I have to go back to that guy George Michael kicked out of WHAM.

 

[Freightdog75]

Thread starter:

Get in line with the rest of us $hithead !!

FD75

 

[AKAAB]

Not for sale...

Sorry, recommendations are not for sale. I applaud your attempt to find a solution in a no-win scenario, but I'd suggest you direct your efforts to finding that one person that might know you at JB, and cultivate your relationship. Otherwise, offering to buy an inside track is unethical and is directly against the JB values.

Safety, Caring, INTEGRITY, Fun, Passion - learn them and live them!

Good Luck!

AKAAB