Recommend me some airplanes

[rjacobs]

Yea I think under 5 mil or right around is going to be about the limit. That gets rid of the CJ4(I am going to offer it to him though) and the Lear 45XR(but again going to offer it). So a CJ2, CJ3 or LR45 seem to be the best buy. I think I am also going to throw the Premier in there to compare to the CJ2 since it appears to have, at least book ranges, similar to the CJ2, but with a better cabin and avionics.

 

[jonjuan]

Yea I think under 5 mil or right around is going to be about the limit. That gets rid of the CJ4(I am going to offer it to him though) and the Lear 45XR(but again going to offer it). So a CJ2, CJ3 or LR45 seem to be the best buy. I think I am also going to throw the Premier in there to compare to the CJ2 since it appears to have, at least book ranges, similar to the CJ2, but with a better cabin and avionics.

But the premier I has awful range/payload, IIRC.

 

[BoilerUP]

The Premier and the CJ2/3 have the same avionics - Collins ProLine21. The "straight" CJ2 typically has a Universal FMS, but the 2+/3 have the same FMS-3000 the Premier has.

And while the Premier does fly nice, has a larger cabin cross-section and is faster than the CJ2+ (we demo'd one)...in reality it does NOT have the range/payload flexibility or capability than the CJ2+ has, let alone the CJ3. You also cannot operate it for less than you can the CJ2+, and its max range figures are at a 0.70M LRC, slower than the CJ2+. My wife flew P-Is and said they were great - Mach 0.80 all the way to a fuel stop or a service center. I understand the -IAs fixed some of the early Premier's brake issues

Cessna always outperforms their marketing numbers...Raytheon/HBC, not so much.

 

[rjacobs]

OK, guess I will take the Premier out of the equation if the CJ2 is better than it. I have a buddy that has flown one quite a bit and he said it didnt live up to the expectations of it, but it wasnt terrible and it flew well.

 

[CorpCaptain]

Boiler, your better half is a pilot too? Who's the better stick? LOL.

 

[BoilerUP]

She WAS a pilot...decided one professional pilot was enough in a family...

 

[BigMike]

Cessna always outperforms their marketing numbers...Raytheon/HBC, not so much.

What he said. Oh yeah, and the Premier I is crap.

 

[SpaceBall 1]

Go buy a used Astra. Great performance and good support. Higher DOC than the CJ3, but you'll save 3 mil on the purchase price. That's alot of cash to put towards your DOC.

Between the LR45 and CJ3, you'd be better off with the CJ3. Premier?? No way.

 

[NCherches]

Does he want something new or can you get into something like a Citation Bravo or Ultra? Would be a good plane for your mission and is a lot cheaper than some of those CJ series (and feel the same from the back seat). Fuel burn might be slightly higher but not by much.

 

[Quimby]

As an example, I'm showing our CJ2+ from CPS-SJC to be 4+39 and 3600lb block fuel burn...cruising at FL450 with 46kt average headwind. Our Fltplan.com profile is a little conservative on fuel burns, so we'd probably be closer to 3400lb burn...but 600lb is just 45min legal IFR reserves and I wouldn't plan to land that short on fuel.

If you were to fly at a constant long-range speed of 0.68M (vs. the 0.737M max), you'd probably shave another 100-150lbs off that.

Either way, its highly doubtful the 2+ could make St. Louis-Bay Area westbound even under the best circumstances, and the CJ3 would be limited doing so against stiff winds (and even more so with your payload).

If your boss HAS to go west-coast nonstop, the LR45 is definitely your airplane...if he can live with 2x monthly westbound tech stops the CJ series will fit the rest mission profile more efficiently.

.68M?

painful

 

[BoilerUP]

.68M?

painful

All a legacy Citation I/II can really do in cruise is 0.62M anyway (~350ktas)...0.68M is ludicrous speed in comparison!

 

[pilotyip]

Look at a 731 powered DA-20F, biggest cabin for the price, or if you really want to save money a GE powered DA-20 under $1M.

 

[BigMike]

...if you really want to save money a GE powered DA-20 under $1M.

He DID mention operating costs ya' know.

 

[hiflyer731]

But without the mod it only does around 1500?

I dont want to mess with mods right now simply because the guy doesnt know much about aviation so he wont understand the point of buying an airplane just to spend an additional 500k on it to get it to do what we want.

Plus the 40XR's are damn near even with 45XR pricing from what I am seeing(not including an additional 500k for the fuel mod on the 40).

I cant think the DOC on the 40 is that much less than the 45, maybe 10 or 15 GPH fuel flow and the same for everything else.

I personally have not operated the 40, only the 45. But I have used a contract pilot that manages and flies a 40 and he says they do Chicago-LA once a month and only when the weather is bad in LA and alternate fuel is required do they need to make a stop. The 40 has a lower BOW and MTOW and a much more aft CG so it gets to FL470 sooner and is more efficient in cruise than the 45. Those two factors allow it to pretty much match the range of the 45. It's worth talking to some 40 operators to verify.

 

[pilotyip]

He DID mention operating costs ya' know.

depends upon how much he is going to fly, 100 hr a year, the cheap airplane is more cost a effective, a 1000 hours a year the expensive airplane with good SFC might be the best buy. We found at $4.00/gal we would have to fly a 731 powered airplane over 100 hours per month to be cost effective over the GE airplane when you consider the capital cost that has to be justified by the hourly savings.