Recommend me some airplanes

[rjacobs]

Got the go-ahead from a guy I am working with on getting him into an airplane of some kind. Budget is up in the air, but I know the lower the better. DOC is also a high priority. Speed is not of the greatest concern.

Mission is varied with a bunch of ~250 mile destinations, a few 750-1000 mile trips and a few ~1500 mile trips. Aircraft will be based in the STL area and the longer trips are out to the LAX/SFO/SEA area's.

Looking to go to the west coast about 2x a month(which probably means more than that) so a fuel stop 2x+ a month is going to get old.

Usually will be between 1 and 4 pax plus crew.

Aircraft I have been considering:
CJ3
CJ4
Citation Excel
Citation XLS
EMB Phenom 300
LJ45

Right now I am really liking the LJ45 for its price to performance ratio.

 

[CorpCaptain]

The 45XR is a great airplane, even the 60SE is worth a look. Little bit nicer cabin and the ProLine 21 is easy to learn. I would stay away from the Phenom, still too many "What if's" to spend millions on. Good luck!

 

[rjacobs]

I think the 45XR is going to be out of the price range when the regular 45 will do what we need(at least from what I can tell).

Thanks for the 60SE suggestion.

edit: Fuel burn on the 60 is, I think, going to put it out of contention.

 

[imacdog]

The Excel/XLS is a very nice plane for that mission. Spend some time in the cabin of each airplane before you decide; the cabin of the Excel is quite comfortable for that length of a mission.

 

[BoilerUP]

If DOC is a concern, and the LR60 is too expensive, you might as well take the Excel/XLS off your list too because it's about the same.

While the LR45 is a great performer (external lav & APU!) and will make the left coast nonstop from STL with a full boat, you simply cannot beat the CJ2+ or CJ3 in terms of DOC, both from a per-hour and per-NM basis...especially when you say you will have a good number of 250-300nm segments. Yeah you'll have to make a tech stop going west in the CJ2+ most times and probably a good number of times in the CJ3, but I'd bet both the acquisition & operating cost of used airframes would be more suitable for the 75% mission.

We have 500lbs of full-fuel useful load with 2 crew in our 2+, and can take 6 pax + bags on 1000nm trips with relative ease.

Again, the 45 would be superior from both the pilots' and passengers' perspectives than a CJ-series airframe...but the 2+ or 3 sound like it'd be suitable for your requirements at a CFO-friendly budget.

 

[minitour]

Seriously take a look at the CJ2 and CJ2+.

This.

I can get you into an early serial 2 for a sweetheart of a deal.

-mini

 

[rjacobs]

Seriously take a look at the CJ2 and CJ2+.

According to a friend that flies them(a 2+) it will only make the west coast non-stop from the home base about 10-15% of the time. He said if I needed an alternate it would make it 0% of the time. I looked hard at them, but this is a deal breaker when there are other airplanes out there in the same price range, with similar fuel burns, that will make the west coast 100% of the time without a stop.

 

[rjacobs]

LR45's right now are looking in the 4-5mil range asking price. CJ2+ is about the same. CJ3 in the 6mil range. I have been trying to stay at or below the 5 mil range, but if something was a spectacular aircraft and it was a bit more, I could probably talk the guy into it. I think the CJ4 would be a great airplane, but I dont know if I can get him into 8-9 million territory.

I agree that the DOC on the CJ2+ and 3 is excellent, but from a total trip cost perspective(from what I have costed out so far) they are within 200-300 bucks of the LR45 on the longer flights and pretty close(less than 200 bucks) on the short flights.

The LR60 and Excel/XLS are quoted around 200GPH burn, which isnt crazy, but I just keep coming back to the LR45 and kind of comparing stuff to it in the same purchase price range.

 

[hiflyer731]

If you don't want/need an APU the 40 would be a great option. Make sure if you get the straight 40/45 that it has the -BR engine upgrade. I haven't flown the -AR engines but i hear it's a real dog.

 

[rjacobs]

I dont think the 40XR has the legs that the 45 does. I thought I read it would only do 1500ish miles with any kind of load. If it will get close to the 45 range I think they are priced decently.

I am thinking I need to be getting close to 2000nm zero wind NBAA IFR range with a decent load(4 pax plus 2 pilots) to be able to do STL to the west coast all the time.