Recommend me some airplanes

[hiflyer731]

The 40 will pretty much match the 45, but now you can get the full 6000# of fuel in the 40 and it will do 2000nm. I think the mod is 500-750K to get the extra fuel.

 

[rjacobs]

The 40 will pretty much match the 45, but now you can get the full 6000# of fuel in the 40 and it will do 2000nm. I think the mod is 500-750K to get the extra fuel.

But without the mod it only does around 1500?

I dont want to mess with mods right now simply because the guy doesnt know much about aviation so he wont understand the point of buying an airplane just to spend an additional 500k on it to get it to do what we want.

Plus the 40XR's are damn near even with 45XR pricing from what I am seeing(not including an additional 500k for the fuel mod on the 40).

I cant think the DOC on the 40 is that much less than the 45, maybe 10 or 15 GPH fuel flow and the same for everything else.

 

[taters]

nice used Lear 45, they are wonderful and can be had for a song. Let Duncan maintain it, they really do the job on Lears

 

[timmay]

Hawker 800a or xp??

 

[rjacobs]

Hawker 800a or xp??

To much airplane with to high of fuel burn.

 

[CRAZY LEGS]

Got the go-ahead from a guy I am working with on getting him into an airplane of some kind. Budget is up in the air, but I know the lower the better. DOC is also a high priority. Speed is not of the greatest concern.

Mission is varied with a bunch of ~250 mile destinations, a few 750-1000 mile trips and a few ~1500 mile trips. Aircraft will be based in the STL area and the longer trips are out to the LAX/SFO/SEA area's.

Looking to go to the west coast about 2x a month(which probably means more than that) so a fuel stop 2x+ a month is going to get old.

Usually will be between 1 and 4 pax plus crew.

Aircraft I have been considering:
CJ3
CJ4
Citation Excel
Citation XLS
EMB Phenom 300
LJ45

Right now I am really liking the LJ45 for its price to performance ratio.

45- goes higher and faster than all of the above. It is also much more efficient than the Excel or XLS.
The 45 has low approach speeds, dual tires, great carbon brakes, and has the most systems redundancy of any of these airplanes by far.

 

[Hawker800]

Does he want a standup cabin or does this matter? That was a major consideration for my boss thus a Hawker 800. I can usually stay between 1600 and 1800lbs per hour Florida to Montana on a regular basis. Sometimes a little better. Nonstop 99% of the time. 100% back home. It is as you said alot of machine for a first time owner but a very comfortable aircraft.

 

[rjacobs]

Does he want a standup cabin or does this matter? That was a major consideration for my boss thus a Hawker 800. I can usually stay between 1600 and 1800lbs per hour Florida to Montana on a regular basis. Sometimes a little better. Nonstop 99% of the time. 100% back home. It is as you said alot of machine for a first time owner but a very comfortable aircraft.

dont think it matters on the standup cabin, but 250gph is WAY to much fuel burn when a LR45 is around 180-190 and CJ2/3 is like 140-150.

 

[BoilerUP]

dont think it matters on the standup cabin, but 250gph is WAY to much fuel burn when a LR45 is around 180-190 and CJ2/3 is like 140-150.

There's more that goes into DOC than just fuel (as I'm sure you know); the Feb 2011 issue of Business & Commercial Aviation has a decent writeup on the LR45 inside the back cover and it says LR45 operators report the airplane needs "extra maintenance" beyond its 300hr intervals. That's definitely something to keep in mind looking at an older airframe.

Same article also says roughly 1800pph first hour and 1200pph subsequent hours for 0.80M cruise; for comparison's sake, I plan 1100/800/750/750 in the CJ2+ and at FL450 it will do 0.737M (its MMo, roughly 402kts) and burn 730pph; the CJ3 is the same speed and roughly 780pph.

Again, don't want to sound like a CJ fanboy but its reading like your mind is made up on the LR45 and unless the moneyman has dictated nonstop to the west coast I think it'd be worthwhile to at least compare the 2+/3 to the LR45 in your presentation.

 

[rjacobs]

There's more that goes into DOC than just fuel (as I'm sure you know); the Feb 2011 issue of Business & Commercial Aviation has a decent writeup on the LR45 inside the back cover and it says LR45 operators report the airplane needs "extra maintenance" beyond its 300hr intervals. That's definitely something to keep in mind looking at an older airframe.

Same article also says roughly 1800pph first hour and 1200pph subsequent hours for 0.80M cruise; for comparison's sake, I plan 1100/800/750/750 in the CJ2+ and at FL450 it will do 0.737M (its MMo, roughly 402kts) and burn 730pph; the CJ3 is the same speed and roughly 780pph.

Again, don't want to sound like a CJ fanboy but its reading like your mind is made up on the LR45 and unless the moneyman has dictated nonstop to the west coast I think it'd be worthwhile to at least compare the 2+/3 to the LR45 in your presentation.

I definitely have the 2+ and 3 in my presentation for the guy(along with KingAir 90 and 200/250 and both Emb Phenom's-although I think I may remove them since they arent a proven design yet and the interiors leave a lot to be desired). I think the 3 would work for us due to non-stop to the west coast capability. I think the 2+ would also work, but with a fuel stop on the way out every time, and as long as the guy understands that it would be a fantastic airplane. I would rather have a 3 over a 2+ especially because you arent talking much money difference. I would really like a 4, but I think they are getting a little pricey. Payload carrying in any of them with full fuel(which I will most likely need to carry to make the west coast) is a concern in the 2+/3. I am basing my presentation on carrying 4+2 crew as that seems to be what he says a fairly common pax load would be(at least for the longer flights where it would be a concern). Short flights would be 1-2 pax+2 crew so no concern over payload/fuel on them.

Then I keep coming back to the Lear45 overall package. DOC is a bit higher, but its also quite a bit faster which negates most of the DOC increase. Acquisition cost is also on par with the CJ2+/3 and for the cost of a 3 I can dang near get into a 45XR. There are some straight 45's on the market in the 3.5-4.5 range. And with the 45 I never have to be concerned about range vs. payload.