Recommend me some airplanes

[rjacobs]

Got the go-ahead from a guy I am working with on getting him into an airplane of some kind. Budget is up in the air, but I know the lower the better. DOC is also a high priority. Speed is not of the greatest concern.

Mission is varied with a bunch of ~250 mile destinations, a few 750-1000 mile trips and a few ~1500 mile trips. Aircraft will be based in the STL area and the longer trips are out to the LAX/SFO/SEA area's.

Looking to go to the west coast about 2x a month(which probably means more than that) so a fuel stop 2x+ a month is going to get old.

Usually will be between 1 and 4 pax plus crew.

Aircraft I have been considering:
CJ3
CJ4
Citation Excel
Citation XLS
EMB Phenom 300
LJ45

Right now I am really liking the LJ45 for its price to performance ratio.

 

[CorpCaptain]

The 45XR is a great airplane, even the 60SE is worth a look. Little bit nicer cabin and the ProLine 21 is easy to learn. I would stay away from the Phenom, still too many "What if's" to spend millions on. Good luck!

 

[rjacobs]

I think the 45XR is going to be out of the price range when the regular 45 will do what we need(at least from what I can tell).

Thanks for the 60SE suggestion.

edit: Fuel burn on the 60 is, I think, going to put it out of contention.

 

[imacdog]

The Excel/XLS is a very nice plane for that mission. Spend some time in the cabin of each airplane before you decide; the cabin of the Excel is quite comfortable for that length of a mission.

 

[BoilerUP]

If DOC is a concern, and the LR60 is too expensive, you might as well take the Excel/XLS off your list too because it's about the same.

While the LR45 is a great performer (external lav & APU!) and will make the left coast nonstop from STL with a full boat, you simply cannot beat the CJ2+ or CJ3 in terms of DOC, both from a per-hour and per-NM basis...especially when you say you will have a good number of 250-300nm segments. Yeah you'll have to make a tech stop going west in the CJ2+ most times and probably a good number of times in the CJ3, but I'd bet both the acquisition & operating cost of used airframes would be more suitable for the 75% mission.

We have 500lbs of full-fuel useful load with 2 crew in our 2+, and can take 6 pax + bags on 1000nm trips with relative ease.

Again, the 45 would be superior from both the pilots' and passengers' perspectives than a CJ-series airframe...but the 2+ or 3 sound like it'd be suitable for your requirements at a CFO-friendly budget.

 

[minitour]

Seriously take a look at the CJ2 and CJ2+.

This.

I can get you into an early serial 2 for a sweetheart of a deal.

-mini

 

[rjacobs]

Seriously take a look at the CJ2 and CJ2+.

According to a friend that flies them(a 2+) it will only make the west coast non-stop from the home base about 10-15% of the time. He said if I needed an alternate it would make it 0% of the time. I looked hard at them, but this is a deal breaker when there are other airplanes out there in the same price range, with similar fuel burns, that will make the west coast 100% of the time without a stop.

 

[rjacobs]

LR45's right now are looking in the 4-5mil range asking price. CJ2+ is about the same. CJ3 in the 6mil range. I have been trying to stay at or below the 5 mil range, but if something was a spectacular aircraft and it was a bit more, I could probably talk the guy into it. I think the CJ4 would be a great airplane, but I dont know if I can get him into 8-9 million territory.

I agree that the DOC on the CJ2+ and 3 is excellent, but from a total trip cost perspective(from what I have costed out so far) they are within 200-300 bucks of the LR45 on the longer flights and pretty close(less than 200 bucks) on the short flights.

The LR60 and Excel/XLS are quoted around 200GPH burn, which isnt crazy, but I just keep coming back to the LR45 and kind of comparing stuff to it in the same purchase price range.

 

[hiflyer731]

If you don't want/need an APU the 40 would be a great option. Make sure if you get the straight 40/45 that it has the -BR engine upgrade. I haven't flown the -AR engines but i hear it's a real dog.

 

[rjacobs]

I dont think the 40XR has the legs that the 45 does. I thought I read it would only do 1500ish miles with any kind of load. If it will get close to the 45 range I think they are priced decently.

I am thinking I need to be getting close to 2000nm zero wind NBAA IFR range with a decent load(4 pax plus 2 pilots) to be able to do STL to the west coast all the time.

 

[hiflyer731]

The 40 will pretty much match the 45, but now you can get the full 6000# of fuel in the 40 and it will do 2000nm. I think the mod is 500-750K to get the extra fuel.

 

[rjacobs]

The 40 will pretty much match the 45, but now you can get the full 6000# of fuel in the 40 and it will do 2000nm. I think the mod is 500-750K to get the extra fuel.

But without the mod it only does around 1500?

I dont want to mess with mods right now simply because the guy doesnt know much about aviation so he wont understand the point of buying an airplane just to spend an additional 500k on it to get it to do what we want.

Plus the 40XR's are damn near even with 45XR pricing from what I am seeing(not including an additional 500k for the fuel mod on the 40).

I cant think the DOC on the 40 is that much less than the 45, maybe 10 or 15 GPH fuel flow and the same for everything else.

 

[taters]

nice used Lear 45, they are wonderful and can be had for a song. Let Duncan maintain it, they really do the job on Lears

 

[timmay]

Hawker 800a or xp??

 

[rjacobs]

Hawker 800a or xp??

To much airplane with to high of fuel burn.