Recalls at Delta?

[doh]

General, I didn't know it was that quick to intl. I stand corrected. My post was just based on the assumption that Delta will not hire many, if any Comair pilots. I was pointing out to P38 that this does not mean the end of his world. There are lots of places he can hire on at that will not result in drudgery for the rest of his career. That's all I meant.

 

[FreightNazi]

(1) How is any airline going to make money with oil between $50 and $60 a barrell?

We can probably forget the days of $40 oil. As China's economy spins up demand is going to soar.

~~~^~~~

It's actually quite easy to make lots of money with oil that high....... at least for FedEx and UPS!!!!

FedEx has a 1.75% surcharge on ground shipments, UPS 2%. And on air shipments FedEx 8.5% and UPS 9.5%.

I'd venture to say that the surcharges more than cover the increase in the price of oil, so FedEx and UPS probably make even more money as the price of oil increases as they just simply increase the surcharge amount! Until the pax airlines do this they are screwed.

 

[General Lee]

General, I didn't know it was that quick to intl. I stand corrected. My post was just based on the assumption that Delta will not hire many, if any Comair pilots. I was pointing out to P38 that this does not mean the end of his world. There are lots of places he can hire on at that will not result in drudgery for the rest of his career. That's all I meant.

Doh,

I understand. And sure, he can try many other airlines. He can try Delta too. My whole deal here was to extol the ASA and CHQ guys for helping our furloughs and not voicing opposition or staying silent on the issue of helping them. It was appreciated by many. And yes, looking at the seniority list on the last large bid there were 5 year guys holding the INTL 767ER out of NYC. Not bad.


Bye bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General:

I hope that Delta figures out how to make money again and gets the pilots recalled to enjoy a good career. Two thoughts that I would like to read your comments on:

(1) How is any airline going to make money with oil between $50 and $60 a barrell?

(2) Figure that Delta is positioning Comair for the 100 seat battle ground? Tossing the E Jet type into the heart of ALPA's representational battle seems like lighting a fuse. I know you think your scope has this wrapped up, but are you sure?

Rumors from a wide variety of sources are that the ASA MEC was playing footsie with the Delta MEC on a J4J type agreement while LOA 41 was being negotiated. Surely Delta management knows something of it and perhaps is angling to get the type going at a subsidiary with a less cozy relationship between labor leadership.

I would sure like to see ALPA provide some sort of leadership that would get your pilots off the street now and provide some future for the RJ's pilots as the type gets phased out in favor of larger, more efficient airplanes.

We can probably forget the days of $40 oil. As China's economy spins up demand is going to soar.

~~~^~~~

Fins,

A fuel surcharge, like the one just instituted by NW and followed by everyone else, is a start. We just added $20 to each roundtrip, and we will probably add more if oil continues to climb. NW has finally figured it out.

As far as Comair getting 90 and 100 seaters, well, not for Delta, according to our VP of flight Ops in that lounge show. He said no way. Now, Comair could get them for someone else, but not on the Delta side. If that is the case, good for them, and enjoy flying them for United etc.....

The days of $40 oil may not be gone for good, but they are gone when we have constant cold weather storms in the NE. When we thaw out it will go down again, but then probably rise for the Summer driving season. It sounds like a cycle. Hopefully the surcharges will run in cycles too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

FBJ,


Now, as far as your diatribe on how "we redheaded stepchildren" should be treated, I say "HUH?" What? Treachorus actions by our labor group? Huh? Please say again what our labor group did to affect our furloughs?

.....So, before you lambast me, you need to read up more on your Comair/ASA/Delta history. Quit preaching when you don't know the facts....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Obviously I failed to get thru to you. Your perspective is devisive. Reread my post, Delta guys are not blamless and don't deserve only the best of the best. Understand I don't wish you guys to suffer, but I do wish you would stop whining about it. You can come out of this experience a better person and stronger.


Your right, though, I don't know all the "facts". Just like I don't know much about the Hatfield vs. McCoy fued. Enjoy your fued.


Even though we disagree, I can't wait until DAL folks are all called back. I wish you guys well.

 

[General Lee]

Obviously I failed to get thru to you. Your perspective is devisive. Reread my post, Delta guys are not blamless and don't deserve only the best of the best. Understand I don't wish you guys to suffer, but I do wish you would stop whining about it. You can come out of this experience a better person and stronger.


Your right, though, I don't know all the "facts". Just like I don't know much about the Hatfield vs. McCoy fued. Enjoy your fued.


Even though we disagree, I can't wait until DAL folks are all called back. I wish you guys well.

Devisive? We weren't like that during the Comair strike. We all wanted them to win because Delta could afford it at the time. We all hoped they would, and we contributed a lot, along with everyone else. It didn't happen. Then, 9-11 hit and we had our own huge problems. We started to downsize, and people were getting furloughed. It was a scary time for everyone, except the regionals were now starting to backfill our old flights, and Lawson---the Comair MEC Chair, wanted it all. Our MEC chair went to him for possible help for our guys, many of which were ex Comair pilots that were in the wrong place at the wrong time now, and Lawson wanted something in return for their help. Their next excuse was management didn't allow it (even though now they do----as they got new 70 seaters...), and on and on and on........ I never heard any sympathy for any of our guys problems----only "Can't do it......nope....can't do it". And, in the meantime ASA and CHQ opened their doors to help out our guys in need. I wish I didn't have to re-live this fight, but don't expect me to forget how they treated some of our people, the same people who helped them out. I got to hear it first hand from some of my friends that were furloughed, and it was a terrible time. That is what I won't forget. Why not reward somebody for their generosity? ASA and CHQ were great to our people and offered them a hand. That is what I am getting at here-----more "rewarding" and less "punishing." I would rather stress the "rewarding"----and I believe ASA and CHQ deserve to be rewarded for their help. That is my opinion, which will be forwarded to the people in charge of future hiring. Let's get off the punishment thing, but I still won't forget what happened. I don't think anyone really will.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[P38JLightning]

general history lesson

>>>>Lawson---the Comair MEC Chair, wanted it all. Our MEC chair went to him for possible help for our guys, many of which were ex Comair pilots that were in the wrong place at the wrong time now, and Lawson wanted something in return for their help.



You are correct...to a point. He did want something in return. Your MEC chair started the meeting with direct threats. He rode in on his high horse, laid out his very very limited time frame for the meeting and compliance with his demands, and threatened something along the lines of: "You will do this or there will be hell to pay" was his not even thinly veiled threat. He specificaly said if we didn't make a big show trying to change management's policy he would see to it that the Delta pilot group would retaliate against the Comair rank and file when it came to future hiring. His meeting was a take it or leave it demand, full of disrespect and arrogance.

Our MEC's response? Heck no unless you bow down to me as you are demanding me do to you. Anyone would have responded that way, even ASA and CHQ. I thought we should have taken the high road and we didn't. Many Comair pilots lobbied our reps and management to hire DAL furloughs anyway, and several of us wrote checks without ever being asked to. Now you say all ASA and CHQ pilots should go ahead of all CMR pilots, even those who helped. That is wrong. Maybe its a catharsis for you, who knows.

If you don't believe the version of this story I've laid out, call your MEC chair at the time and ask him. Also ask him what Comair pilots were at that same meeting and call them and get their story too. This issue is obviously of huge importance to you. You should at least get the whole story before you set "CMR villians/ASA heros" in stone, don't you think?

Now I know this doesn't excuse our MECs behavior on this issue, but I have to wonder why this is even being discussed. We've hired many UAL, FLYI and USAir furluoghs who are still on the lists of the airlines who furloughed them, despite the fact that they "resigned". Ditto for Eagle, CoEx, Commutair and others (all were offered recall rights when their time came, so IOW they were still on their respective lists) even though they "resigned". So why is Delta the only airline (or one of the very, very few) who enforces resignation letters to pilots its furloughed?

Again I ask you, who would you hire, a ASA pilot who you know didn't do squat other than get hired on with a carrier who just so happened to have an MEC your MEC got along better with, and who is also in the RJDC, or a Comair pilot who went to considerable effort and expense to help and did his best to try to change the way things were? Don't cop out with generalizations. In this example, who would you hire? Who would you "reward"?

 

[General Lee]

>>>>Lawson---the Comair MEC Chair, wanted it all. Our MEC chair went to him for possible help for our guys, many of which were ex Comair pilots that were in the wrong place at the wrong time now, and Lawson wanted something in return for their help.



You are correct...to a point. He did want something in return. Your MEC chair started the meeting with direct threats. He rode in on his high horse, laid out his very very limited time frame for the meeting and compliance with his demands, and threatened something along the lines of: "You will do this or there will be hell to pay" was his not even thinly veiled threat. He specificaly said if we didn't make a big show trying to change management's policy he would see to it that the Delta pilot group would retaliate against the Comair rank and file when it came to future hiring. His meeting was a take it or leave it demand, full of disrespect and arrogance.

Our MEC's response? Heck no unless you bow down to me as you are demanding me do to you. Anyone would have responded that way, even ASA and CHQ. I thought we should have taken the high road and we didn't. Many Comair pilots lobbied our reps and management to hire DAL furloughs anyway, and several of us wrote checks without ever being asked to. Now you say all ASA and CHQ pilots should go ahead of all CMR pilots, even those who helped. That is wrong. Maybe its a catharsis for you, who knows.

If you don't believe the version of this story I've laid out, call your MEC chair at the time and ask him. Also ask him what Comair pilots were at that same meeting and call them and get their story too. This issue is obviously of huge importance to you. You should at least get the whole story before you set "CMR villians/ASA heros" in stone, don't you think?

Now I know this doesn't excuse our MECs behavior on this issue, but I have to wonder why this is even being discussed. We've hired many UAL, FLYI and USAir furluoghs who are still on the lists of the airlines who furloughed them, despite the fact that they "resigned". Ditto for Eagle, CoEx, Commutair and others (all were offered recall rights when their time came, so IOW they were still on their respective lists) even though they "resigned". So why is Delta the only airline (or one of the very, very few) who enforces resignation letters to pilots its furloughed?

Again I ask you, who would you hire, a ASA pilot who you know didn't do squat other than get hired on with a carrier who just so happened to have an MEC your MEC got along better with, and who is also in the RJDC, or a Comair pilot who went to considerable effort and expense to help and did his best to try to change the way things were? Don't cop out with generalizations. In this example, who would you hire? Who would you "reward"?

P38,

You are asking a lot of hypotheticals here. I don't know what the interviewers will do eventually, it may be a long way off. But, someday it will happen, and there may just be some sort of questions asked. I think this all may be moot if SkyWest buys you now----maybe you will all be SkyWest pilots....... All I can say is that there are a lot of us that are disappointed with how the majority of Comair pilots acted during those bad times. I can say I am bitter, I am. I saw first hand the pain my friends were going through, and when they heard Comair wanted them to resign their Delta numbers before joining their "team", they weren't very happy about it.

If I had to pick, I would pick the guy who tried to help our people. Did you try P38? Did you? There should be a reward for that. I still thank ASA guys and even the CHQ guys I meet to this day for helping our people.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[doh]

I met your MEC chair. He was a b@st@rd to me as soon as he found out who I worked for. I was not impressed. Demanding and disrespectful of me as a human being. Arrogant too. Yes, that probably played a big role in our response.

 

[General Lee]

I met your MEC chair. He was a b@st@rd to me as soon as he found out who I worked for. I was not impressed. Demanding and disrespectful of me as a human being. Arrogant too. Yes, that probably played a big role in our response.

Was this after the cold reception from Lawson? I bet it was.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DAL737FO]

First off, if you weren't there then you don't know exactly what was said between our MEC's. I was not and all I've gotten is second, third or farther down knowledge of what was said or the attitude of arrogance going from one direction or the other. That being said the end game result was still the same. The furloughee's were denied the possibility of getting hired without seniority number resignation at one wholly owned while the other wholly owned welcomed them. Now people will say that was a management decision and we had nothing to do with it but it sure looks funny when JC finally agrees that Comair should hire furloughee's, after recalls began, then the company changes it's policy.

As for future hiring at Delta. It is a long way off but it will happen. When it does people are going to try and get their friends, family and people that helped them out in the hard times hired first. That is human nature. I can only talk for myself and a lot of the furloughee's that I know, when I say that if you have Comair on your resume or if it is found out that you are a member of the RJDC then it probably will be a little harder for you to get an interview. Notice I said a little harder not impossible.

When this whole situation between our MEC's wasing going full tilt, I called a buddy of mine from the Army that is at Comair and asked what was going on. He said that although he didn't overtly support JC or what he was saying or what the RJDC was saying or doing that it was a no lose situation for him. I asked why he felt that way and his answer was that if the RJDC wins the scope battle then his company will get bigger aircraft and if they lose he can always deny that he was a part of the RJDC. Same thing went for the furloughee's, it was not him it was his MEC making that decision. I told him that if we ever hired again that it probably wouldn't set well for him getting an interview to which he said he would have to roll that dice. So long story longer Comair guys/gals are going to have to live with that decision.

 

[GogglesPisano]

General,

ASA and CHQ were not the only airlines where MECs made a statement of support to hire furloughed DL pilots.

ACA's MEC made the same statement and included furloughed UAL pilots. Of course, very few were hired before we began our downward spiral -- but I wouldn't hold that against the ACA pilot group.

 

[General Lee]

General,

ASA and CHQ were not the only airlines where MECs made a statement of support to hire furloughed DL pilots.

ACA's MEC made the same statement and included furloughed UAL pilots. Of course, very few were hired before we began our downward spiral -- but I wouldn't hold that against the ACA pilot group.

I don't, and I thank you for reminding me of that. I might not have that much pull, but I will voice my opinion when the times comes someday in the future.


Bye Bye--General Lee