G4G5 said:
G4G5
I come back from a 3 day to read this load of crap, geeze.
The APA DOES NOT have the power to change the Eagle contract. Get that through your stupid head. Only AMR can do that not the AA pilots! We can't just walk into Centerport and demand that AMR mgt change the Eagle contract.
Wrong again Gulfstream boy. AMR can't just change our contract either, just like they can't just change yours . The fact is that both AA and APA sat down and negotiated an agreement that definitely changed a 4 party agreement that Eagle ALPA is a party to. Now even Darrah admits that if APA pilots displace into the senior CRJ-700 captain positions before first displacing into the junior EMJ captain positions as called for by Supplement W, then APA exposes themselves to clear seniority liability issues. Even if AMR was the one that introduced the idea, APA is just as bad and just as liable for going along with it. Even APA Captain White said we (APA) assumed that Eagle pilots would rather we displace the fewer CRJ-700 Captains than to displace a large number of EMJ Captains at Eagle. APA negotiators nor AMR can assume or negotiate on our part. Can you get that through your (and I'm quoting you now) stupid head?
Why should the APA have gotten involved with Eagle concessions when we can't change your contract? We negotiated for ourselves. You pay dues to ALPA not us. So ask them why you were not invited?
It is a real simple concept, see if you can follow along OK? AMR was close to Chapter 11 and needed concessions from labor. APA and AMR sit down and decide what items will be part of the concessions on their part. AMR does not want to pay for the large flowback training costs and domino training costs at Eagle that will be associated with the pending furlough at AA.
APA pilots have every right to flow back to Eagle and displace Eagle CJ Captains as defined in Supplement W. APA dicided to give up their right to displace to the EMJ Captain positions at Eagle in exchange for approx 28 million toward their total concession goal. This is your right that APA gave up, not Eagle ALPA. APA and AMR then decided that furloughed APA pilots could then magically displace directly to the senior CRJ-700 Captain positions at Eagle without first displacing the more junior EMJ Captains. This is clearly outside Supplement W/Letter 3.
In addition APA and AMR magically gave all AA furloughed pilots recall rights to all the vacated CJ Captain positions at Eagle as the flowbacks go back to AA at a metered rate of 20 per month. So the senior Eagle CRJ-700 pilot who was displaced by a flowback can't even ge back into his position until it is offered to all furloughed AA pilots down to the last one. This would occur even though he has a much more senior AA number than the guy that is getting recalled to that position. Supplement W/Letter 3 clearly only gives furloughed AA pilots recall rights to Eagle only if they flowed back to Eagle and then were displaced by a more senior AA flowback.
Additionally, instead of either:
1. Capturing all flying done for AMR for APA pilots.
2. Putting all additional RJs on the property at AA and staffing them with APA pilots.
3. Working out some cheesy Jets-for-Jobs proposal with Eagle ALPA. (Which by the way they signed a LOA that outlines a method of achieving a Jets-for-Jobs agreement with American Connection.)
Instead APA and AMR agreed to just magically put all furloughed AA pilots on the Eagle seniority list flying all additional RJs that go to Eagle. Again clearly outside of Supplement W/Letter 3. How would you like it if AMR and Eagle ALPA sat down and decided a new way to magically put Eagle pilots on APA's seniority list outside the flow through agreement without your input? Wake up.
I quote:"Instead AA employees ask what concessions did Eagle take while not even inviting them to the concession table. "
This is where you are an absolute idiot. The APA pilots gave away 2000-3000 jobs, Scope concessions and work rules valued at well over a $800 million and all you can retorte with is "we weren't invited".
Daaaa I can imagine the phone call. Hello this is John Darrah calling. We are giving away everything, you guys want to chip in"
Instead you guys GAVE UP NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't try to use the "we weren't asked" defence. The reason that the APA, TWU and APFA members are all pissed at Eagle is because we gave back $1.8 BILLION to AMR and you gave back NOTHING. We weren't asked, is not going to cut it. We contributed to the concessions needed to save your AS. Fact without the employees of AA, Eagle would now be in BK court with your complete contract up for renegotiation(everything not just a few hundered flow back jobs). Just like UAL's. Yours would have been up for section 1113 abrogation, just like ours.
Lets see. So when times are good, AA is a separate part that does not "share" in the toal AMR profit sharing. When things go bad we should equally share in the concessions? I have a little news for you. The AA unit of AMR was losing the vast majority of the money, not Eagle. Infact even according to AMR's bogus numbers, Eagle made money in 4th quarter 02. Now Eagle contracts with AA on a true "fee for departure" agreement. AA is getting a better bang for their buck with Eagle than they are with the AX carriers.
If it went to Chapter 11 the court would realize that unlike AA, Eagle is profitable and should be left alone or sold off to protect the interests of the creditors.
I would not get too wrapped around the axle about what the PDP has to say. Take a look at their web site. It has LESS THEN 50 members. Your getting to be worse than the NY TImes. The PDP left out the AX code exchange arbitration. It has not been settled and AMR mgt is fully aware of this. If they try to mess with the TA or ask for $10 mill, it could wind up costing them more. But the PD left this tid bit out.
What the PDP also left out is the FACT that AMR mgt wanted to get rid of Sup W/letter 3. That is why it is COSTING the APA members $10 million to keep it. So in essence we are PAYING $10 million so that when things get better Ealge pilots can still keep their number and flow up.
The PDP boys addressed the AX code arbitration and they are still worried about it just like APA. To say they left it out is bogus.
We all know AMR wants to get rid of Supplement W/Letter 3. I got some news for you. APA gave up a large part of their Supplement W rights, and will give up even more if it costs too much. Eagle pilots with AA numbers will keep their worthless AA numbers regardless of APA negotiating their Supplement W rights away. Again, APA can't negotiate away Eagle ALPA pilot's rights.
The orignal sup W allowed AA pilots to displace the Eagle rights pilots the new sup W only allows AA pilots to take newly created jobs.
You are on drugs. The original Supplement W/Letter 3 states no "Eagle Rights" CJ Captain can be displaced by any flowback AA pilot. Hence the name "Eagle Rights" genius. Even in the new illegal ratified contractual language, APA addresses the fact that they have to come to some agreement with Eagle ALPA on the disposition of the "Eagle Rights" CRJ-700 Captains. If you want me to post the specific contractual language that you clearly have not read I will.
Try to remember that it is AMR mgt who wants to get rid of letter 3/ supW. This is evident by the FACT that mt is charging the APA $10 mill for it. So get over this whole the APA is screwing us, line of crap.
I never said APA is screwing us. I will say that APA scewed up though. Unfortunately, under pressure APA ratified concessionary contractual language of which changes a 4 party agreement illegally. The major problem for APA now is that they can only change one item by trading it with AMR for something of equal value. It would have been much easier to have involved Eagle ALPA in the parts of the concessions that changed Supplement W/Letter 3.
I quote"And APA is leading the way to the bottom with their latest ratified contractual language. "
No the basic conception here is we did what would have been done to us in a BK court, see UAL. Now please tell me how your currrent contract, under no BK pressure. Did anything to up hold the profesion. Take a long look at your own agreement before you even think about making pathetic statements about ours.
The environment during which the embarrasing Eagle contract was ratified was worse than any Chapter 11 situation. The contract is terrible, and I will be the first to tell you that we hurt the profession more than any other pilot group for years. Infact, it is so bad that even AMR knew better than to ask for any concessions on the the verge of Chapter 11.
I quote, "You will be on the street for a long time."
This is probably the single most stupid statement I have ever read but I expect it from you. Just your version of lower your own personal bar, once again.
I won't get into it right now but I already have a new job.
It is a terrible fact that a large number of pilots are going to be on the street for a long time. It is my wish that every furloughed pilot is able to retain another job flying like you have. However instead of the pilots allowing airline management to contract to the lowest bidder, we as a global union of pilots need to start protecting our interests as a whole.
