REALLY BAD news for DCI XJ&9E

[bri5150]

So you insult my intelligence and then immediately state that my comment was accurate? Brilliant.

Pinnacle Contract 2011: It may not be "good", but it certainly is at least average if not better.

Where did I insult your intelligence? I said you didn't know what you were talking about. Plenty of intelligent people don't have information on certain subjects. Also, the spirit of your post was not that we had an average contract. The spirit of your post is that our contract is god aweful. Yes, I will take a slightly above average contract (not the most expensive one) so that the company I work for can compete and stay out of bankruptcy.

 

[Flyprdu]

Jesus, I had no idea you Mesaba pilots were such drama queens.

 

[bri5150]

Jesus, I had no idea you Mesaba pilots were such drama queens.

:bawling:

 

[i fly boxes]

you guys do start a lot of bad news rumors, i guess its because you are used to it and thats cool, but pinnacle has not furloughed anyone since 9/11 and with attrition coming at the majors i doubt we will

 

[BOX OFFICE]

This "rumor/threat" of bankruptcy reminds me a lot of Comair's first push for concessions in 2002 shortly after signing their "windfall" contract. Gotta love management in the regionals. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I really hope you all don't fall for it.

 

[Flyer1015]

I really hope you all don't fall for it.

Actually, now that Pinnacle has merged with Mesaba, the amount of lifers at the new Pinnacle has increased tremendously. Lifers, as is usually the case, will do anything and everything to keep their golden egg goose alive. As was seen recently with the recent Frontier concessions, a pilot will do what it takes to keep the place alive when they know it is their only employment option, and starting over is not. The more lifers you have, the more likely the above scenario could be true.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Actually, now that Pinnacle has merged with Mesaba, the amount of lifers at the new Pinnacle has increased tremendously. Lifers, as is usually the case, will do anything and everything to keep their golden egg goose alive. As was seen recently with the recent Frontier concessions, a pilot will do what it takes to keep the place alive when they know it is their only employment option, and starting over is not. The more lifers you have, the more likely the above scenario could be true.

Less than 400 out of 3000 I'd say are lifers. Comair had half the company in the likely to sure thing lifer category.

 

[Flyer1015]

Less than 400 out of 3000 I'd say are lifers. Comair had half the company in the likely to sure thing lifer category.

No way. It's more than 400 out of 3000 that are lifers.

 

[bri5150]

No way. It's more than 400 out of 3000 that are lifers.

I was 450ish on the Mesaba list and I am nowhere near the lifer line. Most around me are young enough and motivated enough to get the hell out.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

No way. It's more than 400 out of 3000 that are lifers.

About 200 at Mesaba, about 150 at Pinnacle, and 50 at Colgan (and I bet that is high). = 400. Now did a bunch of Pinnacle guys change their minds because of the new contract, who knows. But I know a few of the former lifers at Mesaba are no longer thanks to the merger, just as the bankruptcy chased some way before.

 

[Speedtape]

Who actually owns all the Pinnacle 200's in operation?

The answer to this question will explain alot and may be foretelling of the future.

 

[Flyer1015]

bri and Wsugumpi,

How many flowthroughs do you really think will go through? I spoke to a 42 yr old XJ pilot with 18 years service and he had no interest in moving on. He's gonna ride it out. IMO, the Delta flowthrough is gonna get wasted. Of the 100 or so flow spots, I would be surprised if even half take it.

So yes, lifers.

 

[bri5150]

bri and Wsugumpi,

How many flowthroughs do you really think will go through? I spoke to a 42 yr old XJ pilot with 18 years service and he had no interest in moving on. He's gonna ride it out. IMO, the Delta flowthrough is gonna get wasted. Of the 100 or so flow spots, I would be surprised if even half take it.

So yes, lifers.

Okay, even if that were true, that's only 50 lifers. As you go down more and more on the list, the less and less lifers there will be.

 

[mesaba13]

Flyer

From your vast experience (career 9E Fo) you know how many Mesaba pilots will elect to go? You are just one of those guys that always has all the answers.

I can tell you from looking at our actual seniority list that 80% have the box checked as "yes". The 14 remaining are either "n/a" or "No" . Some of these are working on the 4 year degree requirement and may say yes when they meet the requirement. Some of the guys that checked "no" will probably convert over to yes if this merger shows any signs of trouble.

 

[DoinTime]

About 200 at Mesaba, about 150 at Pinnacle, and 50 at Colgan (and I bet that is high). = 400. Now did a bunch of Pinnacle guys change their minds because of the new contract, who knows. But I know a few of the former lifers at Mesaba are no longer thanks to the merger, just as the bankruptcy chased some way before.

I think the number at PCL is closer to 300. I would bet the XJ number is greater than 200 too. I doubt the new contract (except for maybe the locked up job protections) changed anyone's minds at any of the carriers on whether they were going to stay or go. Especially if you have a time investment in already. If you are north of 10 years of service and in your 40's its going to be a tough gig to leave.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

bri and Wsugumpi,

How many flowthroughs do you really think will go through? I spoke to a 42 yr old XJ pilot with 18 years service and he had no interest in moving on. He's gonna ride it out. IMO, the Delta flowthrough is gonna get wasted. Of the 100 or so flow spots, I would be surprised if even half take it.

So yes, lifers.

Then I would call that pilot a fool. I wish him and any anyone else wanting to stay the best, but anyone under 45 should not think twice about bailing out. This company (as well as any other "small jet feeder") does not have a bright future without majors giving up 737/320 size scope. If that happens then it doesn't matter what your age, there is no bright future anywhere except for those that already retired or dead.

 

[DoinTime]

there is no bright future anywhere except for those that already retired or dead.

Would you like me to chamber a bullet for you?

 

[Flyer1015]

Flyer

From your vast experience (career 9E Fo) you know how many Mesaba pilots will elect to go? You are just one of those guys that always has all the answers.

I can tell you from looking at our actual seniority list that 80% have the box checked as "yes". The 14 remaining are either "n/a" or "No" . Some of these are working on the 4 year degree requirement and may say yes when they meet the requirement. Some of the guys that checked "no" will probably convert over to yes if this merger shows any signs of trouble.

Historically speaking, and from looking at the seniority list, Mesaba has many lifers. All the guys right now hired in the 80s at XJ will most likely be lifers. Even early 90s. How much is that of your seniority list. Isn't the most senior guy a 1981 DOH? Many guys make up the Xj list from 1981 DOH to 1992 DOH. I don't see those guys leaving anywhere. 20+ yrs at XJ to start over? I don't see it. Now, historically, XJ probably has the most amount of lifers due to the fact they have been around for a looooooong time. But those days are over. Mesaba is dead. Now, it's Pinnacle. And the remnant truboprop Mesaba is just Colgan painted a new color scheme. I really hope that pilots wake up and realize that the good ol' Mesaba they knew is dead/long gone, and the new Pinnacle is not a place to hang your hat. Anyone under 40 needs to work on getting outta here. Unless you like taking large bets (Vegas style) and bet on another 25 years of Pinnacle perfection. Good luck.

I think the number at PCL is closer to 300. I would bet the XJ number is greater than 200 too. I doubt the new contract (except for maybe the locked up job protections) changed anyone's minds at any of the carriers on whether they were going to stay or go. Especially if you have a time investment in already. If you are north of 10 years of service and in your 40's its going to be a tough gig to leave.

With the new contract, the # of Pinnacle lifers definitely increased.

Then I would call that pilot a fool. I wish him and any anyone else wanting to stay the best, but anyone under 45 should not think twice about bailing out. This company (as well as any other "small jet feeder") does not have a bright future without majors giving up 737/320 size scope. If that happens then it doesn't matter what your age, there is no bright future anywhere except for those that already retired or dead.

Amen to above! Somebody else who gets it.

Would you like me to chamber a bullet for you?

A little early. Lets wait to see how this integration goes, and what the movement looks like in the near future.

 

[Flyprdu]

I will not presume to speculate on each individuals' decision to stay or go.

But I can speak generally that I can see how 10 years of post 9/11 stagnation can change a man's career expectations in accordance to what he values.

Think about your perspective 10 years ago. Compare it to today. I can imagine that life has a funny way of changing it for you.

I will say this: If there hadn't been the 9/11 slowdown and age 65, there would be far less regional lifers than there are today.

 

[Flyer1015]

I will say this: If there hadn't been the 9/11 slowdown and age 65, there would be far less regional lifers than there are today.

Obviously, that goes without saying. 9/11 at the beginning of the decade, a little hiring spree mid-decade, and then the Age 65 rule, coupled with the worst economy since the Great Depression. These are the reasons that have made many become lifers.

However, I cringe when I hear a guy in their 20s and 30s that say they will be lifers here. That is just plain stupid. You have far too much time left to risk staying. 40-45 is also worth leaving, in my opinion, but everyone will reason it in a different way. Above 45-50 could go either way, and 50 or above can just stay as lifers.