Re: American

[Fox-Tree]

Anybody's guess is the best answer I have heard or believe. I am committed for the long haul. But we will be back.

Keep the faith.
PHX767

I find it absolutely incredible that anyone would effectively put their professional life on hold for a decade waiting for the entry level job they had 10+ years earlier to re-open.

Sooner or later, don't you have to just move on?

 

[75M]

In your dreams.

Trust me, it's a mightmare, not a dream. Good luck guys.

 

[St. Nic]

**DISCLAIMER-
A recent arbitration ruling stated that 244 of the approx 500 Eagle flowthroughs should have started class June 2007. The arbitrator has returned the 4 parties (AA, AE, APA, AE ALPA) to negotiate a remedy. If a remedy can't be reached within a 90 day period then it will go back to the arbitrator to decide how to fix things. I believe that 90 day period ends around beginning of Feb 2010. This is my understanding of the issue, but I am sure someone will have more details/comments.

Best of luck with a senile arbiTRATOR. St Nic just keeps screwing things up...

 

[G4G5]

**DISCLAIMER- The following info comes from an Eagle pilot (me) and what our union (AE ALPA) has told us, take it FWIW

A recent arbitration ruling stated that 244 of the approx 500 Eagle flowthroughs should have started class June 2007.

That's the way I understood it. The 244 take us up to where we are today. The remaining 256 fall somewhere with in the 1888 still waiting to be recalled. I think that it's actually 535 pilots.

It's my understanding from the arbitrators ruling that the 244 Eagle pilots should have been offered recall already. It's my interpretation that when AA does start recalling the 244 Eagle pilots will be the first recalled and then installed onto the AA seniority list.

It will take 6-12 months to recall 244 pilots with current retirements near zero. That means no movement on the list (other then backwards) for the next year or so.

 

[TWA Dude]

I find it absolutely incredible that anyone would effectively put their professional life on hold for a decade waiting for the entry level job they had 10+ years earlier to re-open.

I don't think your condescending statement applies to many pilots at all. I've been at my current job for five and a half years and had every intention of deferring recall to AA. Well guess what, I'm slated to get furloughed early next year. Suddenly, a crappy $80,592/year job at AA doesn't sound so bad. Planning on accepting recall doesn't mean anything was put on hold. Heck, there's a furloughed ex-TWA guy who went through medical school and is now a real MD. He says he may accept recall due to how crappy (he feels) the medical profession is.

 

[Draginass]

I don't think your condescending statement applies to many pilots at all. I've been at my current job for five and a half years and had every intention of deferring recall to AA. Well guess what, I'm slated to get furloughed early next year. Suddenly, a crappy $80,592/year job at AA doesn't sound so bad. Planning on accepting recall doesn't mean anything was put on hold. Heck, there's a furloughed ex-TWA guy who went through medical school and is now a real MD. He says he may accept recall due to how crappy (he feels) the medical profession is.

Geez. If being an airline pilot beats being a physician, the medical profession must be in a bottomless pit of kimchi.

 

[Flyby1206]

It's my understanding from the arbitrators ruling that the 244 Eagle pilots should have been offered recall already. It's my interpretation that when AA does start recalling the 244 Eagle pilots will be the first recalled and then installed onto the AA seniority list.

That seems to be the general assumption of what the arbitrator will say if he is forced to make a decision (meaning the 4 parties cant come up with a remedy of their own). It would be sad to see Eagle flowthroughs "recalled" ahead of the TWA/AA furloighees who are legit on the street unemployed. The majority of AE flowthroughs aren't chomping at the bit to flow immediately, so I am hoping all parties can negotiate a way to give the furloughed pilots a shot before the FTs come.

 

[G4G5]

That seems to be the general assumption of what the arbitrator will say if he is forced to make a decision (meaning the 4 parties cant come up with a remedy of their own). It would be sad to see Eagle flowthroughs "recalled" ahead of the TWA/AA furloighees who are legit on the street unemployed. The majority of AE flowthroughs aren't chomping at the bit to flow immediately, so I am hoping all parties can negotiate a way to give the furloughed pilots a shot before the FTs come.

What you are saying makes sense. The problem is that ALPA which represents the Eagle pilots wants those seats. Most if not all of those 500+ seats are being held by the most senior Eagle pilots. Eagle still has around 50-70 guys on furlough.

ALPA wants movement on their seniority list for their members and it's my understanding that they want those guys off of the ALPA list and onto the APA's list ASAP.

They have approx 2600 pilots if 535 leave for AA that represents a little over 20% of their list. Thats a lot of new captain seats.

AMR will want the same thing, the because TWA pilots all come back at a much higher pay rate then the new first officers at Eagle.

For the 535 Eagle pilots its a wash. 17 year pay is $102 an hour but they get the line they want and they can fly as much as they want, in the left seat. If they transfer over to AA they get $110 an hour on the MD80 or $113 on the 737 (12 year fo pay). For all but the very, very senior they will be on reserve at 73 hours a month commuting to LGA or ORD as an FO for a very long time. And if things go as planned they get to walk a picket line next year.

Not sure if its a good deal but IMHO, all 4 parties want this behind them ASAP, which doesn't bode well for the folks currently on furlough.

 

[FO 4 Life]

For the 535 Eagle pilots its a wash. 17 year pay is $102 an hour but they get the line they want and they can fly as much as they want, in the left seat. If they transfer over to AA they get $110 an hour on the MD80 or $113 on the 737 (12 year fo pay). For all but the very, very senior they will be on reserve at 73 hours a month commuting to LGA or ORD as an FO for a very long time. And if things go as planned they get to walk a picket line next year.

Don't the Eagle pilots come over at 2nd year pay?

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Don't the Eagle pilots come over at 2nd year pay?

Thought the same thing when I read his post. Unless there is a buried clause or letter in the agreement, my 20 year AA guess is NF way.

 

[G4G5]

Why 2nd year pay and not probationary pay?

I was under the impression that they were full AMR employees and received seniority date for pay and vacation. I could be wrong about the pay, and I hope I am. If they come over at second year pay its a no brainier for them, stay at Eagle.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

I think maybe you just found the solution in keeping them at Eagle until the furloughs get a chance to come back. Money, pay them to stay at Eagle or pay them a higher wage at AA if they delay coming over.

 

[Flyby1206]

As Letter 3 states, all Eagle flowthroughs go over at yr 1 pay, but they keep sick time and vacation accrued I believe. That being said, the arbitrator ruled that the 244 FTs should have gone over June 2007, so that would in essence put them at year 3 pay on the AA scale, which is $90/hr for the MD80 and $92/hr for the 737.

18yr pay on the Eagle payscale is roughly $93-102/hr depending on equip. At Eagle we have a min guarantee of 72hrs for lineholders, and most of our lines are built to 80-90+hrs as opposed to AA with the 64hr guarantee for lineholders (im not sure how high they build your lines, but isnt there a cap around 83hrs/mo?)

The first year pay at AA is $35/hr and is a huge hit for all of the flowthroughs (I believe the majority are on yr18 pay at Eagle). It has been the major bone of contention for not wanting to flow.

 

[NavinRJohnson]

Recall Rights

Just curious: How long does an AA furloughee have for recall rights?

I know at CAL and UA it's 10 years. We are approaching that amount of time for some at American.... incredible.

 

[aa73]

Unlimited recall rights at AA.