Rah To Fly For Midwest Express

[PCL_128]

OK. Now you're getting emotional, not rational. Basic morality and ethics in light of a legal decision?
NMB rules it a separate carrier. OK, now what?

Again, your talking legality, I'm talking ethics. SCABbing isn't illegal, but it is unethical and immoral. By the same token, the NMB may claim that TSA and GoJet are separate companies, but we all know the truth. Ethics must still be adhered to.

 

[PCL_128]

what???? again, you have no idea of what you are talking about.

This is the first I'm hearing of ALPA claiming that scope has actually been violated in the MEH/RAH case. What language is being violated?

 

[Freight Dog]

Again, your talking legality, I'm talking ethics. SCABbing isn't illegal, but it is unethical and immoral. By the same token, the NMB may claim that TSA and GoJet are separate companies, but we all know the truth. Ethics must still be adhered to.

Which recognized and defined picket line did GoJet pilots cross? Whose strike did they break?

Were TSA pilots striking or were they filing grievance over something and they lost?

Dude, they filed a grievance and the arbitrator disagreed. Sucks for TSA, yes, absolutely, but that doesn't make GoJet pilots scabs.

So now what about RAH? Are they scabs now too? Suppose MEH pilots lose their grievance... are RAH pilots also gonna be referred to as pseudo-scabs?

 

[PCL_128]

Which recognized and defined picket line did GoJet pilots cross? Whose strike did they break?

Why do you seem to believe that crossing a picket line is the only unethical act that a pilot can commit? They are not SCABs, but they aren't blameless, either.

So now what about RAH? Are they scabs now too? Suppose MEH pilots lose their grievance... are RAH pilots also gonna be referred to as pseudo-scabs?

My understanding is that Captain Schnedorf and the rest of the MEC are working closely with the RAH IBT unit. This is obviously a much different situation, even if ALPA Legal has determined that there is a scope violation.

 

[Freight Dog]

Why do you seem to believe that crossing a picket line is the only unethical act that a pilot can commit? They are not SCABs, but they aren't blameless, either.[/qupte]

OK, so which is it? Are they scabs or are they not? In previous posts, you were referring to GoJet pilots as scabs. Now you're saying they're not, but just "unethical."

Also, following the conclusion of the grievance through NMB decision ruling against ALPA, how is it unethical to work there?

My understanding is that Captain Schnedorf and the rest of the MEC are working closely with the RAH IBT unit. This is obviously a much different situation, even if ALPA Legal has determined that there is a scope violation.

How? From what I read around here, looks like GoJet pilot union is working closely with TSA ALPA on a number of issues including hiring furloughees. The only difference I see here between RAH/MEH case and TSA/GoJet case is that the TSA/GoJet case was decided 3 years ago.

 

[PCL_128]

OK, so which is it? Are they scabs or are they not? In previous posts, you were referring to GoJet pilots as scabs. Now you're saying they're not, but just "unethical."

I've always referred to them as "pseudo-scabs." They aren't true SCABs, but they're almost as bad.

Also, following the conclusion of the grievance through NMB decision ruling against ALPA, how is it unethical to work there?

I thought we already covered this? They're willfully assisting management in the destruction of ALPA jobs at TSA.

How? From what I read around here, looks like GoJet pilot union is working closely with TSA ALPA on a number of issues including hiring furloughees.

Got a reference? I haven't heard about this. In any case, the situation is completely different. GoJet's entire purpose in being created was to destroy TSA ALPA. RAH is being used as a pawn of Timmaaaay and MEH to harm the MEH pilots, but RAH is a completely separate company and the pilots there did not take jobs that were specifically created to destroy MEA ALPA. You're trying to compare two situations that couldn't possibly be more different.

 

[Propsync]

what???? again, you have no idea of what you are talking about.

Hey Wolf, could you post the section? I don't know if you can or you can't here on the mighty FI.

I call BS and agree with PCL. I really doubt there's anything in there that says Midwest CAN'T do it. I find it strange not much was said on the 80's getting parked, but now all of a sudden there's a problem, the same time the entire MEC will be gone. Guess it didn't hit home until now.

On the other side, what real good is gained by grieving it? ALPA did something? Say it goes all the way. Nine 717's and a dozen 170's on the certificate. If TH and klan says it will position Midwest for future growth, what aircraft will they use? How many? Again, this is all moot as Midwest will be done after Delta and NW merge. I don't understand why everyone is up in arms about this.

 

[Freight Dog]

I've always referred to them as "pseudo-scabs." They aren't true SCABs, but they're almost as bad.

I don't buy it, and here's why... by using your definition, it would make every express pilot a pseudo-scab. Watch below...

I thought we already covered this? They're willfully assisting management in the destruction of ALPA jobs at TSA.

'They (express pilots) are willfully assisting management in the destruction of (high-paying) ALPA jobs at (insert a mainline carrier here).'

That's why it's a 'slippery slope' to loosely apply any reference to scabs to this situation. The application of any reference to scabbing by GoJet pilots was squashed by NMB in their ruling. Simple... it's time to let it go and concentrate on future fights, not re-living and fighting a fight that was lost 3 years ago.

Got a reference? I haven't heard about this. In any case, the situation is completely different. GoJet's entire purpose in being created was to destroy TSA ALPA. RAH is being used as a pawn of Timmaaaay and MEH to harm the MEH pilots, but RAH is a completely separate company and the pilots there did not take jobs that were specifically created to destroy MEA ALPA. You're trying to compare two situations that couldn't possibly be more different.

The bulk of the newhires at GoJet now are TSA furloughees with the bulk of the street captain/CQFO's are furloughed ATA/Champion (not familiar of any former Aloha there). I believe I read about TSA/GoJet pilot union cooperation on this board, or it might have been on APC. Might want to do some checking...

I really don't see much difference between the old TSA/GoJet argument, Eagle/TSA argument and MEH/RAH argument. It's a cutthroat industry. The CEO's and the management are laughing their asses off all the way to the bank while we are getting even more and more divided as a group.

 

[GOULET!]

PCL needs to first take care of his own SCAB (or psuedo-scab)filled airline first (AirTran).

 

[PCL_128]

I don't buy it, and here's why... by using your definition, it would make every express pilot a pseudo-scab. Watch below...

'They (express pilots) are willfully assisting management in the destruction of (high-paying) ALPA jobs at (insert a mainline carrier here).'

That's why it's a 'slippery slope' to loosely apply any reference to scabs to this situation.

Again, completely different situation. The mainline pilots all voted to allow that outsourcing to the "express" carriers. Stupid decision? Yep, but it was theirs to make. No flying was stolen from them, and no letter or intent of the scope language was violated. It was a willful agreement to outsource the flying. That is not what happened at TSA/GoJet.