RAH Representation Election - Write in "RPC"!

[Axel]

Or.
Or...

If RAH struck perhaps a better tack would be to encourage the other legacies and FFD carriers to fly everything RAH is not. Replacement of that flying by a competitor would increase pressure on the company.

F9 is different in this respect due to the fact that RW and F9 are (if not at heart, at least on paper) the same company. If the Airbusses continued to fly it would serve to undermine the strike.

The RAH group is mad enough at BB right now to strike just out of sheer spite. There is no doubt that they would park the Embraers if the F9 side struck and they would have the legal standing to do it. Even in the absence of the anger, if F9 struck RW would stop flying the Frontier system.

 

[A320kid]

Couple of things:

I am not RAH. I was, but I'm not. When I was, my indifference to who flew what was wider than the sea. People like you seem to care much more about which people don't fly the Airbus than people at RAH care who do.

Wet dream? To commute from the East Coast to DEN for long trips rather than drive 10 minutes to work and be home almost every night, all just so I could have sex with your airplane? Hardly.

You got awfully mad. The "S" word is certainly incendiary but even so, you got pretty shrill. With the invocation of that word, some anger is expected, but I find it disturbing that rather than address what I wrote you instead attempted (unsuccessfully, I might add) to insult me with tired cliche rhetoric.

Having left the slow-motion train wreck that now exists at that happy house, I feel as if a great weight has been lifted from my shoulders. Enjoy your Airbus while it lasts. Enjoy your station above the RJ scum while it lasts, keep the RJ scum out of the Airbusses until the last one is sold and above all else, keep up the fight.

Thank you for the wise words Axel. I am very happy that you were able to land that killer flight instructing job only 10 minutes from your parents house. I'm sure they are proud.

Educate yourself on the history of aviation scabs - it's not something to just throw around. Arguing with someone who has no concept of reality is a waste of time. I'll let you have the last word.....

 

[Beetle007]

If RAH group go on strike then The FFD carriers should go on strike as well(Delta, U.S. Airways, United)? Wake up Axel your living in your own dream world. Be careful how you use that "S" word!

If Republic ever goes on strike, then the same thing should happen as when Comair went on strike. Delta pilots refused to fly any additional capacity on routes flown be Comair. If Delta tried to add a flight, the pilots at Delta refused to fly it. If Delta tried to add a larger aircraft, the pilots at Delta refused to fly it. Delta had union reps at the airport monitoring the situation and telling Delta pilots which flights they couldn't fly.

The same thing would happen if Republic went on strike. All the union airlines that permit Republic codeshares (including Frontier) would be expected to refuse added capacity on struck routes previously flown by Republic or they would be considered scabs by the industry.

 

[chqflyer]

If Republic ever goes on strike, then the same thing should happen as when Comair went on strike. Delta pilots refused to fly any additional capacity on routes flown be Comair. If Delta tried to add a flight, the pilots at Delta refused to fly it. If Delta tried to add a larger aircraft, the pilots at Delta refused to fly it. Delta had union reps at the airport monitoring the situation and telling Delta pilots which flights they couldn't fly.

The same thing would happen if Republic went on strike. All the union airlines that permit Republic codeshares (including Frontier) would be expected to refuse added capacity on struck routes previously flown by Republic or they would be considered scabs by the industry.

You guys really are playing too fast and loose with the scab word. If we go on strike and our mainline partner resumes those routes, they are not scabs. It's their flyin to begin with. It'll be a cold day in hell before a mainline pilot group gets involved in a labor tiff at a POS regional.

 

[The Drizzle]

You guys really are playing too fast and loose with the scab word. If we go on strike and our mainline partner resumes those routes, they are not scabs. It's their flyin to begin with. It'll be a cold day in hell before a mainline pilot group gets involved in a labor tiff at a POS regional.

Actually, no. If the route is declared struck work, and you fly it, you are a scab. Witness the Spirits scabs.

 

[Bolo]

Open Letter to Pat Gannon:

Pat,

I’ve tried to stay out of this but can no longer. You have repeatedly taken the position of “honesty” and “truth.”

I am politely and professionally requesting that your messages to the pilots be truthful and factual. You have made several statements to your members that simply are not true (surprise, your members send your communications to us). I am not accusing you of lying, it’s entirely possible you simply misunderstood or you are misinformed. Please verify your facts before claiming them as such.

1- We did NOT say we had “no interest” in our committees working together.
2- We did NOT tell IBT (or anyone else) that we wanted you or the ExCo out of leadership under the RPC – quite the opposite.
3- We HAVE tried and HAVE had discussions on how to come together – but the “together” has been IBT way or the highway
4- We have NOT said your negotiations should be put on hold – we have said the opposite
5- We have NOT said everything smaller than an Airbus should be outsourced.
6- CHT CBA Representation, dues and contract would NOT be controlled by FAPA under the RPC
7- You have NOT offered us guaranteed positions or 357 representation on a Transitional Executive Council
8- RAH is/has NOT attempted to “whipsaw” the groups by offering your 2003 E190 rates to us.

These are only some of the statements you have made that are simply not true. There is a difference between campaign “spin” and false claims, if you truly want to unite the groups and win over Frontier pilots I suggest you learn the difference.

Feel free (in fact I encourage you to) share this email with your members, on APC or anywhere else.

-Scott Gould

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Vice President
Frontier Airline Pilots Association

 

[chqflyer]

Actually, no. If the route is declared struck work, and you fly it, you are a scab. Witness the Spirits scabs.

That is a different situation. Spirit struck, then whatever that outfit is, stepped in an flew Spirit routes. That was crossing a picket line beyond any doubt. I'm just saying that our situation is entirely different. Of course I would honor our line, so don't imply that I'd cross. I just don't expect any support from the pilot groups that consider us scabs anyways for all the outsourced flying our company has done over the last decade or so. We can declare whatever we want, just don't expect ALPA or any other mainline union to give a ********************.

 

[ms_chq]

FAPA and Frontier Pilots Arrogance

you want a contract OTHER than the F.A.R's and no JA. Thats the BEST the IBT can do? The IBT has been led around by BB and Co. like a show pony at a Sunday Picnic for years....go with the experience. AND since the IBT cooked its by=laws recently to PREVENT ANY experienced FAPA-types from being in ANY IBT positions, I say go RPC....IBT has had YEARS to get something other than the FARS as a contract......

This is one of the reasons why Native RAH pilots will not vote for RPC/FAPA!

Keep putting your fellow pilots down. . . You already put them in the corner and talked down on them so much. Those little regional pilots.

Try to get your facts before you post.

 

[ms_chq]

Lack of Facts Leads to F9's Downfall

A LOT has been made of what some group MAY do, all we know for sure is that IBT has DONE something, changed its Cand B's to PREVENT F9 PARTICIPATION! Power grab, dues grab, reach around, call it what you want but lets see what has been "talked about" and actions IBT has tried to take my seat, then tunnel under the fence, prevented F9ers from even RUNNING for any office ALL APPROVED BY RAH PILOTS. Actions vs. whispers. Only the IBT 357 can make a hack like BB and his "vision" better for me than being a Teamsta. Who'd a thought? Actions vs. what FAPA MAY be trying, hmnnnnn....The FAR's and no JA? 6 years of Ropa-a-Dope in Section 6??? Mesa gets paid more and has a better contract? 100 equals 99? HUH???......very good IBT....then ones not in jail anyway.....

Can't change C and B's where you didn't have one in the beginning. When was IBT 357 established?

 

[aviatrix767]

Can't change C and B's where you didn't have one in the beginning. When was IBT 357 established?

It doesn't matter, China is wrong. There is nothing in the C&B to prevent F9 pilots from holding office.

 

[ChinaClipper]

Seems you don't know much about your OWN C and B's. Great, just friggin' great. Someone who has PREVENTED me from representing my own interests is UNABLE to even UNDERSTAND his own union structure. Great.....BTW Moot point, the end is near.

 

[ChinaClipper]

AND the FACT that no F9'ers can run for office was made VERY CLEAR by FAPA to the Dumpstah leadership. When asked about it, AND asked if it could be CHANGED, they just kinda went "...er...uh.....really? Uh...er....um... gotta go now..." Mark my words, ya can't NEVER get a good nights sleep after beating your wife.....

 

[PCL_128]

I found this language in the Republic contract and can't find anything similar in the Frontier contract: "The Company will not transfer any Company aircraft or schedule any pilots to fly any trips for airlines that are on strike unless mutually agreed by the Company and the Union."

Did Frontier pilots approve a contract where they can be forced to fly for an airline on strike? Seriously?

If Frontier pilots went on strike, the Republic pilots would be allowed to refuse to fly any aircraft branded as Frontier. Shouldn't every pilot group have that in their contract?

The right to take secondary action (e.g., sympathy strike, honor struck work) is inherent to the RLA. The Frontier pilots already have that right without having to put it into their CBA. If management wants to prohibit it, then they are required to negotiate a "no strike clause" into the CBA, since the law itself favors the union on this one. If the FAPA contract doesn't contain such a no-strike provision, then the FAPA pilots have the right to honor struck work.

 

[aviatrix767]

AND the FACT that no F9'ers can run for office was made VERY CLEAR by FAPA to the Dumpstah leadership. When asked about it, AND asked if it could be CHANGED, they just kinda went "...er...uh.....really? Uh...er....um... gotta go now..." Mark my words, ya can't NEVER get a good nights sleep after beating your wife.....

Okay, first of all, please calm down. Now then, after a few cleansing breaths, please tell me WHO told you that F9 pilots could NOT run for office? This is most definitely NOT TRUE. Please, call someone from 357 and talk to anyone there (attorney, EXCO member, business agent - just call SOMEONE and have them read to you the C & B. You will find out that you CAN run for office. No one is going to stop you - except for you.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation being given to the F9 pilots. Please, I'm asking nicely, to please talk to someone at 357. I hope they can answer your questions.

 

[The Drizzle]

SECTION 4: ELIGIBILITY FOR MEMBERSHIP

Eligibility to membership in this Local Union shall be as set forth in the International Constitution, and applicants for membership shall comply with and be subject to the requirements imposed by these Bylaws and the International Constitution.



IBT Constitution page 16

(d). To be eligible for election to any office in a Local
Union a member who has been involuntarily transferred
from one Local Union to another Local Union must have
ART. II, SEC. 4
[ 16 ]
worked at the craft as a member under the jurisdiction of
the Local Union from which he has been transferred, and
must have been so employed and in continuous good
standing on a cumulative basis in both Local Unions for
a total of twenty-four (24) consecutive months prior to
nomination.

Been a pilot at F9 for 24 months?

Pay all your dues?

You are welcome to seek nomination and run. Always have, always will.

 

[ms_chq]

AND the FACT that no F9'ers can run for office was made VERY CLEAR by FAPA to the Dumpstah leadership. When asked about it, AND asked if it could be CHANGED, they just kinda went "...er...uh.....really? Uh...er....um... gotta go now..." Mark my words, ya can't NEVER get a good nights sleep after beating your wife.....

Yup, you really can't read and comprehend can you. Read it again and again. If you can't, ask for someone to read it for you. If you still can't understand, go back to school and learn how to.

Another F9 pilots credibility and integrity got shot down by his own arrogance.

 

[StaySeated]

SECTION 4: ELIGIBILITY FOR MEMBERSHIP

Eligibility to membership in this Local Union shall be as set forth in the International Constitution, and applicants for membership shall comply with and be subject to the requirements imposed by these Bylaws and the International Constitution.



IBT Constitution page 16

(d). To be eligible for election to any office in a Local
Union a member who has been involuntarily transferred
from one Local Union to another Local Union must have
ART. II, SEC. 4
[ 16 ]
worked at the craft as a member under the jurisdiction of
the Local Union from which he has been transferred, and
must have been so employed and in continuous good
standing on a cumulative basis in both Local Unions for
a total of twenty-four (24) consecutive months prior to
nomination.

Been a pilot at F9 for 24 months?

Pay all your dues?

You are welcome to seek nomination and run. Always have, always will.

So FAPA is a "Local Union" as defined by the IBT?

Regardless, the section you cite is not applicable due to the fact that 357 is a new charter.

See Section 4.A.4(b) of IBT C&B

"

In newly chartered Local Unions which have been in existence for
less than twenty-four (24) months, a candidate for Local Union office
must be a member and in continuous good standing in such Local Union
and must have worked under its jurisdiction as a member for at least
half of the period of time since the Local Union was separately
chartered by the International Union.
(c). In newly chartered Local Unions, chartered as a result of
split-off or merger, a candidate must be a member of the newly
chartered Local Union, must have worked in the jurisdiction for a
total period of two (2) years, and for a total period of twenty-four
(24) consecutive months prior to nomination must be in continuous good
standing on a cumulative basis in the newly chartered Local Union and
the Local Union from which the newly chartered Local Union was​

split-off or with which the newly chartered Local Union was merged.
"

So Either your EXCO doesn't understand the IBT By-laws, or they are being disingenuous once again.

 

[5-early]

Anyone remember the "Guppy Killer" stickers?

 

[stratus72]

ExCo Chairman Pat Gannon has agreed to meet with our pilot group tomorrow. While I can't attend the meeting, I'm sure the question of having to wait 24 months will be asked and clarified. This whole representation "issue" might turn out to be a moot point anyway...time will tell.

 

[terryhfly]

Nope he backed out we are not worthy of his time.