Quit Airline; now Corporate

[blzr]

I think there are an awful lot of us "airline" types trying to make the move. Unfortunately there seems to be quite a bias against us due to severe stereotypes. I think a lot of the jobs we would like to have are probably much better than airline jobs, and certainly some are worse.

Unfortunately, one of the first questions was about the airline stereotype and my feelings about the job since the airplane salesman had prejudiced the purchaser against airline types. One of them told me the salesman specifically mentioned being leary of airline types because they just wanna show up, fly and go home. It's very hard to convince someone otherwise that you're one of the few who's willing to actually work hard and take pride in being more involved in the operations if they have a pre-concieved attitude about you.

I suspect the hardest/most frustrating part of corporate is getting the job! If we can get past that it should be good.


Good luck.

The preconcieved notions within the corp. world are real. Most airline pilots are disciplined in the cockpit and it shows alot more when you fly with a lifer corp. pilot. I am not by any means like the "Roger Ramjet" check airmen we has back at the airlines who nitpick Everything we did in the cockpit, but I may certainly come across that way to some that I fly with.

Some of the pilots I fly with do things different every time, don't fly stabalized approaches because they feel they are boaring, insist on doing everything in the cockpit including setting the altitude and operating the gear and using the radio when in the left seat.

Some see CRM as a crutch for amature pilots and see checklists as nothing more than a sunvisor.

I think it pisses off some corp pilots to see discipline in the cockpit because it makes them feel inferior in some instances so the myth about the airline pilot perpetuates on and on.

 

[G100driver]

The preconcieved notions within the corp. world are real. Most airline pilots are disciplined in the cockpit and it shows alot more when you fly with a lifer corp. pilot. I am not by any means like the "Roger Ramjet" check airmen we has back at the airlines who nitpick Everything we did in the cockpit, but I may certainly come across that way to some that I fly with.

Some of the pilots I fly with do things different every time, don't fly stabalized approaches because they feel they are boaring, insist on doing everything in the cockpit including setting the altitude and operating the gear and using the radio when in the left seat.

Some see CRM as a crutch for amature pilots and see checklists as nothing more than a sunvisor.

I think it pisses off some corp pilots to see discipline in the cockpit because it makes them feel inferior in some instances so the myth about the airline pilot perpetuates on and on.

I respectfully agree with above post. While there are many EXCELLENT corp pilots, I am affraid that I have seen more than my fair share of guys who lack the disipline it takes to be a professional pilot.

With that said, I mean no disrespect to the many fine aviators out there who take their profession seriously.

 

[svcta]

Having come from the airline world in to corp. I tend to also agree....on a certain level. I work with only one other guy at my full-time job and, while I don't think it has anything to do with talent at all, I do try to keep things really standard. But especially when you fly with the same person or one or two people all the time it's really hard not to fall in to a sort of routine that may be slightly non-standard. I see more of the attitude mentioned above when I do contract flying. Interestingly enough that is precisely when SOP should matter the most because there's another crewmember in the cockpit that is usually a stranger(for all practical purposes), sort of ironic.

It's taken some getting used to, and I'll admit that I miss the comort of knowing that I've got everything done because of where I am in the SOP.

That having been said I'm in the process of redoing our normal checklists to more reflect some of the general ideas I got used to in the 121 environment. Example: trying to pare down a lot of the items that get done on the "before landing" ckecklist in our a/c. Most of that stuff can be done way before we're below 10,000 and I'd just rather have both of us heads-up as much as possible form that point in. Especially in weather or in a busy environment. So far my impression is that some of these concepts, while recognized as good ideas, just haven't permeated the corp. world yet as they do elsewhere. Looking at some of these biz. jet checklists and QRHs really makes that clear sometimes.

 

[airbus_jas]

I am about to break the code for you

The thing that you need to remember is that most of the current aviation department directors at the most desirable corporate jobs are in the 50-60 age group.

These guys were looking to get hired by a major 25-30 years ago. What was going on back in 1976? Post Jimmy Carter inflation going through the roof, the repercussions of the '72 gas crunch, the Iran hostages, and airlines furloughing. I can remember my folks sitting around the kitchen table trying to calculate whether my old man would make the next cut if they furloughed 500 or 600 guys. Their were NO airlines hiring and unlike today their was no Jetblue, UPS, Fedex or Southwest to apply to.

These are guys who wanted an opportunity to get on with a major and never, ever, had a chance. It wasn't until the mid to late 80's when the hiring wave broke open again (AA's huge MD80 order). By then most of these guys were in their early 40's, which in those days was the kiss of death, no airline hired a pilot North of 40.

Now fast forward 30 years later and these guys are in charge. They have been around long enough to remember when nobody wanted to work for corporate and they are tired of hearing, " so I hear you are a pilot, what airline do you work for" every time they go to a social function.

It's not personal, these guys had it tuff, it took quite a resume to hired by GE or IBM back in the mid 70's most of these guys have an extensive experience level as well as a high level of post graduate education. It takes a lot for them to forget how hard it was for them to get a descent corporate job and they expect the same from the folks they hire.

This is at least 70% of the departments in a nutshell.

I observed this exact phenomena twice in the last year.

G4G5: remember when we were fearcely arguing against the "imminent" age 60 change two years ago??

Regards,

airbus_jas

 

[Fokkerflyer]

Just do a career Corporate pilot a favor if your gonna switch, know what a Acukwik is, know the number for flight service(1-800-WX-BRIEF), how to get catering from a grocery store when it doesn't show, know that pax ground transportation is a bigger emergency than engine fire, know how to deice an airplane with Prestone Antifreeze/ hot coffee water/ and a bug sprayer from Walmart, to bring six days clothes for a day trip, not to accept a Dalton departure from KTEB unless your wife is giving birth, your Duats account number or Flightplan.com password, know that expense reports are for corporate pilot wage compensation and is your Christams bonus, and a few other things I'll keep secret just to beat you out of the next G??? interview that comes along!

I hope the airline flood gates open again so I can get a raise, a couple more type ratings, another day off, and another page to my three page resume. Hiring is good for everyone!!![/quote]





Classic! Well said NGT

 

[GVFlyer]

I am about to break the code for you

The thing that you need to remember is that most of the current aviation department directors at the most desirable corporate jobs are in the 50-60 age group.

These guys were looking to get hired by a major 25-30 years ago. What was going on back in 1976? Post Jimmy Carter inflation going through the roof, the repercussions of the '72 gas crunch, the Iran hostages, and airlines furloughing. I can remember my folks sitting around the kitchen table trying to calculate whether my old man would make the next cut if they furloughed 500 or 600 guys. Their were NO airlines hiring and unlike today their was no Jetblue, UPS, Fedex or Southwest to apply to.

These are guys who wanted an opportunity to get on with a major and never, ever, had a chance. It wasn't until the mid to late 80's when the hiring wave broke open again (AA's huge MD80 order). By then most of these guys were in their early 40's, which in those days was the kiss of death, no airline hired a pilot North of 40.

Now fast forward 30 years later and these guys are in charge. They have been around long enough to remember when nobody wanted to work for corporate and they are tired of hearing, " so I hear you are a pilot, what airline do you work for" every time they go to a social function.

It's not personal, these guys had it tuff, it took quite a resume to hired by GE or IBM back in the mid 70's most of these guys have an extensive experience level as well as a high level of post graduate education. It takes a lot for them to forget how hard it was for them to get a descent corporate job and they expect the same from the folks they hire.

Every corporate department I've worked for has been headed by a retired military pilot...go figure.


GV

 

[JA-601]

When the airlines started hiring big time it wasn't just a great time for airline pilots it was a great time for almost all pilots. I remember during the boom, I went from bottom of the list King Air copilot to International GIII captain before I realized Greenland was ice and Iceland was green! Corporate pay and benefits skyrocketed and QOL became excellent. If you didn't have the FE written or a 737 type it was even better on your resume. Before the boom went bust most corporate pilots had several type ratings and the job they were looking for. It was a great time for both industries.

Since 2001, I have seen corporate pay slow, benefits slow and QOL tighten! If you are thinking of going from Airline to Corporate expect to have a few starter jobs before the right one comes along. If you are lucky enough to get a great one off the bat don't expect the job profile to be anything similar to a 121 both good and bad. No commuting, no union(good or bad), no flight attendant(usualy)(good or bad), no lines to bid, no preplanned flight, no company maintennance at destination, no enroute dispatch. It's usualy just you, another pilot, an airplane, and a cell phone. For all of the insane things I have been asked to do on a trip there has been 10 times as many rewards. Super Bowls/ Nascar/ Stanley Cups/ Bowl Games/ World Series/ Skiing/ guided tours of Isreal/ Europe/ every Island big and small/ trophy fishing, hunting/ you name it and there's a rental car, 5 star hotel, and mortgage eating expense account waiting for you!

Just do a career Corporate pilot a favor if your gonna switch, know what a Acukwik is, know the number for flight service(1-800-WX-BRIEF), how to get catering from a grocery store when it doesn't show, know that pax ground transportation is a bigger emergency than engine fire, know how to deice an airplane with Prestone Antifreeze/ hot coffee water/ and a bug sprayer from Walmart, to bring six days clothes for a day trip, not to accept a Dalton departure from KTEB unless your wife is giving birth, your Duats account number or Flightplan.com password, know that expense reports are for corporate pilot wage compensation and is your Christams bonus, and a few other things I'll keep secret just to beat you out of the next G??? interview that comes along!

I hope the airline flood gates open again so I can get a raise, a couple more type ratings, another day off, and another page to my three page resume. Hiring is good for everyone!!!

I could'nt have said it better myself !!

 

[G4G5]

This is at least 70% of the departments in a nutshell.

I observed this exact phenomena twice in the last year.

G4G5: remember when we were fearcely arguing against the "imminent" age 60 change two years ago??

Regards,

airbus_jas

It's going to 65, I don't like it but it's going to happen.

I do a lot of personal interaction with the local FSDO guys. Over the past couple of years you can really see what budget cuts have done to these folks. The FAA doesn't have the resources to keep abreast with the JAA. Things like enhanced flight ID, 8.33 spacing & RVSM, have all come from Europe and the FAA just follows. They folks have succumb to the reality that what the JAA says goes and they feel lucky just to have the resources to keep up with what Europe keeps mandating.

Now that ICAO has decided that it's OK for a 64 year KLM pilot to shot the ILS at ORD, when 60 year old AA and UAL pilots can't, how much longer before it changes over here?

I give it another year or two, (once the Dem's win the next election, its a given). For me it doesn't matter because I still have 20 to go and I am planning on it happening sometime during my career.

 

[G4G5]

Every corporate department I've worked for has been headed by a retired military pilot...go figure.


GV

It's been about 50/50 for me, (four Fortune 50 companies) but what I will say is, that if the director comes from a civilian background, then the chief pilot has been former military (unless he's a Marine) and vice versa.

I don't know why but this seems to work well. I really don't have a preference, I have worked for just about every branch of the service and most types of civilians.

The worst operations I have ever worked at have had two military guys in charge, from different branches of the service. I can remember one company I worked for that had an Air Force guy as the AD, a Marine as the fixed wing CP and an Army guy as the rotor wing CP. None of them ever got along and nothing ever got done, it got to the point where the only guys that they would hire were Navy pilots, because no one would give in. It was truly pathetic and this is the hard part for outsiders (airline guys) to understand.

You could have been a Thunderbird pilot or a civilian with an MBA from Warton, they would interview you and send you a, "thanks but no thanks letter". Needless to say, the walls came tumbling down, it took sometime but down-town finally got smart.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

dumb questions

. Things like enhanced flight ID, 8.33 spacing & RVSM, have all come from Europe and the FAA just follows.

I'm sure I'll be excoriated by someone here for asking, but what is enhanced flight ID and 8.33 spacing? If you don't feel like typing, a link or two would be sufficient. Amazingly, I am familiar with RVSM.
Thanks