Quicky. Does anyone add sim time to TT?

[Mel Sharples]

Only 100 hours of it can be used to apply for an ATP, but all of it can be used to show an future employer your experiance.

Look... I'm not arguing the value of sim time. We all know it can be quite a stressful experience and what you do is your business. All I'm saying is that most if not all airlines will not agree with you. You can discuss your sim training and show them your sim time and even put it on your resume. But if you walk in there with 3000 total time and 500 of it is in a level D sim I bet you will not get the job.

From ProPilot.com: Sim time is "pilot time", not "flight time". FAR 61.51 (e) and (f) specify the conditions under which PIC and SIC flight time may be logged. Also, a close reading of these paragraphs reveals that the FAA is referring to time in an aircraft. The simulator approval level (level "C" or "D") has no bearing on whether the time is loggable. The approval level is just a method used by the FAA to control which tasks may be performed in the simulator (as opposed to in an aircraft) on pilot certification flight tests and FAR 121/135 checkrides.

SIM time is experiance, if done with the right training, much better experiance then flying around in a bug smasher.

I agree 100%. But that still does not make it legal or ethical to log as total time. I may learn more jumpseating than flying a 152 but that doesn't mean I can log it. See the difference?

No one is debating the quality of sim time. No one is saying not to log it at all. No one is telling you not to bring it up in the interview.

But the bottom line? Other than the ATP exception, sim time (no matter the level) does not count towards total time. Period.

I don't want to argue anymore. I just want to point the less experienced pilots on this board in the right direction. (What was the point of this thread, anyway?)

Good luck to you in the future and if your level D time gets you a job, congrats. Just don't blame the rest of us if they raise an eyebrow looking at your total time.

Peace. . .

 

[TWA Dude]

Up to a certain point I had been logging Level D sim time as Total Time because I knew I legally could. Then I started noticing that airlines didn't like it -- so I corrected my logbook by deleting it from my TT. At an interview it was noticed and acknowledged with a "thank you".

Bottom line: sim time is valuable and legal to log -- just keep it separate from flight time when you interview at a major airline.

Dude

 

[Mel Sharples]

Bottom line: sim time is valuable and legal to log -- just keep it separate from flight time when you interview at a major airline.

Why were you able to say in one line what it took me in two LONG posts??? (Being brief was never my talent...)


Well said, Dude!

 

[Batman Fan]

I have an airline job. In an airline interview you need to show experiance level. "This is why I will not wash out." I agree the CFR show a difference between Total Flight Time and Flight Time. The Airlines are not the Feds. The Feds care what your flight time is. The airlines care more about who you know and if your someone they want to fly with. My Father got his airline job in the 60's by meeting the right guy at a party.

SIM Time is Not flight time It is total time.

 

[firstthird]

That is nice Batman but everyone else here tends to disagree with your interpretation. So, when you are running airline hiring someday for a major, live it up. Until then, most major applicants would be well advised not to try to count sim time as total time.

Consider the alternatives.

1. the interviewer thinks it is okay or doesn't notice you did it. So you got an extra 100 or 200 hours on your total time, probably didn't get you the interview.

2. the interviewer does notice and doesn't think it is okay. Kiss that airline employment opportunity goodbye. Getting into a 'discussion' with an interviewer is not a smart move regardless of how 'correct' you are.

So, for a slight and probably unimportant advantage someone is risking an interview tubing downside. Not smart.

 

[Batman Fan]

If the 100 to 200 hours did not get me the interview then why would someone make a big deal out of logging it. I admit I have only been on one airline interview and it was a blast. Stressful but fun. I was challanged about my log book: "How did you come accross so much SIM time?" I gave them my answer explained to them how it helped prepare me for an airline job, and it was an non-event. I'm not sugesting lieing to anyone, or sneeking it past an interviewer. I'm not even arguing with you about it. All I want aplicants to know is they should use and show all their flying experiance to their future employers.

 

[upncoming]

Bat guy seems to be saying that "total time" does not imply "total FLIGHT time", however, I have always been under the impression that it did.

That having been said, this whole argument is squashed by reading part 1 where it defines "flight time" as the time from when the AIRCRAFT moves under its own power for the purpose of flight until it comes to rest AFTER LANDING. This means sim time ain't flight time. Taxiing over to fuel up ain't flight time. Taxiing out but had a problem so you went back to the hangar ain't flight time.

To me, "total time" is "total flight time" and does not include "pilot time". YMMV.

 

[vclean]

I bet a lot of folks, like myself, don't log sim time at all. The sim time for the initials, upgrades, types etc, only exist in company records.

 

[100LL... Again!]

If you need to log sim as TT to "get your hours up higher", you do not have very much flight time. Wait until you get real flight time.

Example: Most of us only put actual instrument on the resume - not total instrument (incl hood). Makes you look desperate.

 

[Clownpilot]

I agree with Bathmat Fan!!!!

Simulator time should certainly be counted as Total Time!!!!!

What the hell is the matter with you people?????

It is a great learning environment that provides valuable experience.

So does jumpseating. I mean sitting there actually in the cockpit you are watching everything that goes on and gaining insight.

The current PC flight simulators are incredible. Technology is so good now that they are pretty much as realistic as being there. If you add a yoke, some plywood on the floor and a couple plastic rudder pedals its **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** near the same as actually flying. Practically identical to the same thing.

I have some videos that show actual crews recreating real airline emergencies in a totally authentic cockpit. I have watched those many times and gained invaluable experience from them.

Frankly, I don't believe JUST logging Sim time goes far enough. Personally, I have decided that the following activities constitute credit towards my TOTAL flight time.

1 Simulator time. All variants including full motion.
2 Jumpseat time or observing the cockpit activity first hand.
3 Home PC simulator time that has a program at least as sophisticated as Microsoft FS 2000 and has a yoke and rudder pedals added as controls.
4 Training videos that depict real life cockpit simulations and emergencies.
5 Technical Aviation movies about airplanes that show actual pilots performing crew duties.
6 Realistic fictional depictions of flying episodes that attempt to accurately portray real aviation scenarios and include actors that look like or actually talk like real pilots.

I DO NOT allow logging time watching movies like 'Airplane'. They are not accurate representations of actual flying.

As a result I have logged thousands of hours playing with my computer, watching TV, and since I have the entire Discovery series of ' Wings' on video my potential for logged flight time is virtually unlimited.

Consequently, by the time I was thirty I had accumulated OVER 32,000 hours of TOTAL flight time. Of course my actual time in any real aircraft was less than 1400 hours.

When I applied to the airlines I used my experiences to my advantage to accurately reflect my wealth of knowledge and submitted each application with my TOTAL time of 32,000 hours!!!!!!

7 years and 25 interviews later I have made it past initial flight time evaluation of my logbook 6 times where they allowed me to actually sit down with the interviewing pilots to discuss my experience. Of the 6 I actually got to speak for more than 30 seconds twice before they inquired as to why I felt justified in logging all that time. My maximum interview length so far has been 2 1/2 minutes. I'm improving!!!

Although I still haven't been hired I believe I am right in logging all my experience the way I see fit. My new goal is to actually complete an interview without being escorted off the property by security.

But, I know what I'm doing is right. If they can't see it then its their problem.