Questions for the UNICAL pilots.

[Andy]

Elaborate as to what flying has been shifted. Specifically where UAL has been harmed by flying actually taken from UAL and given to CAL where there has been no reciprocity. Whatever you can come up with will in no way match the loss of CA seats with the ISL on the aircraft that were ordered BEFORE 10/1/2010.

Seriously? You haven't noticed that LUAL 757s are being retired and replaced with LCAL 737s? This has been going on for a while; you'd have to be unconscious to not notice.

As far as LCAL aircraft ordered before 10/1/2010, LUAL cash is paying a large percentage for those aircraft. LUAL could have used that cash to buy their own aircraft, but there was no need to - LCAL ordered too many aircraft as a standalone airline.

 

[Flopgut]

Flopgut, I must give you a tip of the hat for sounding as reasonable and balanced as you do. Mergers usually bring out the worst in anyone. You seem to have gone the other way.

I think it was a pretty clean deal. And I think my side can handle more of a perceived set back than our counterparts. Senior UAL pilots are a pretty fragile bunch at this point, and I can't say I blame them. We'll see now if they can elevate themselves above name calling and internal gamesmanship.

Big picture: Everybody has a seat. No one is without a job and each of us has some upward mobility. That is not always the case.

 

[Andy]

And I think my side can handle more of a perceived set back than our counterparts.

Please. I've already called out two LCAL pilots on these two threads for untruthful posts. Why aren't you calling these guys out when their posts are obvious BS? Like this one:

At mad I was 500ish from upgrade, now I am 4000.... I don't call that a windfall, I call it a beat down!

Or how about the captain who posted on CAL forums that he's going to deny the jumpseat to LUAL furloughees? Not at all professional.

Me? I lost 2% relative seniority today and around 12% when I retire. Plus, that carveout of furlough credit (LOA 25) that gives everyone credit for time on furlough except twice furloughed LUAL pilots. I'm not happy about more than a few things but that's life.

I'm ready to move on but I'm not going to sit idly by while LCAL pilots post outright lies. From outward appearances, many LCAL pilots aren't taking the SLI very well at all.

 

[Flopgut]

I'm ready to move on but I'm not going to sit idly by while LCAL pilots post outright lies. From outward appearances, many LCAL pilots aren't taking the SLI very well at all.

I think they're taking this a lot better than LUAL pilots would have taken some version of the LCAL proposal prevailing. If that had happened, the airline would be shutting down and ALPA would already be off the property. Tell me I'm wrong Andy?

Just let em vent. You can make a few points if you want, but try to sort the dumb stuff out. The quoted portion you wrote to me isn't so much a lie, it's a pilot who doesn't understand the process and is just rambling.

 

[eaglesview]

I think they're taking this a lot better than LUAL pilots would have taken some version of the LCAL proposal prevailing. If that had happened, the airline would be shutting down and ALPA would already be off the property. Tell me I'm wrong Andy?

Just let em vent. You can make a few points if you want, but try to sort the dumb stuff out. The quoted portion you wrote to me isn't so much a lie, it's a pilot who doesn't understand the process and is just rambling.

I don't think you are wrong. We would have not taken it sitting down. I wonder why that is? My opinion, and please feel free to tell me I am wrong, is the CO group is used to getting screwed. They have almost become numb to it. Jeff S , and you were correct about what a piece of work he is, has been calling the shots without an appropriate amount of resistance.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Seriously? You haven't noticed that LUAL 757s are being retired and replaced with LCAL 737s? This has been going on for a while; you'd have to be unconscious to not notice.

As far as LCAL aircraft ordered before 10/1/2010, LUAL cash is paying a large percentage for those aircraft. LUAL could have used that cash to buy their own aircraft, but there was no need to - LCAL ordered too many aircraft as a standalone airline.

Yes lual aircraft are being retired and 737's are replacing them on an ALMOST one for one basis. What lual cash? Lcal has had to spend 1/2 billon to bring most of luals aircraft up to lcals standards. All of lcals orders before 10/1/2010 were accounted for and replaced all 737-500's and somegrowth and now lual gets to enjoy those orders and CA seats while getting rid of their mx pigs and junk 757's. Sounds like a large windfall to most here.

 

[Shrek]

Wow and I thought there was only UAL since 2010.
Get over it - the list is final - reduce your stress unless you are senior to me.

 

[canadflyau]

CASH...? When did we start paying cash for new planes?

Now, checking out the special charges and merger charges, a lot of cash was burned on many things, but financing airplanes? So is it credit/cash/assets on hand, credit available you want to discuss?

 

[RT8VA]

deleted

 

[bluefin]

820 to 2390 at retirement, - 34% thats a screw job, but oh well just deal with it folks!!!!

 

[canadflyau]

820 to 2390 at retirement, - 34% thats a screw job, but oh well just deal with it folks!!!!

I'm not sure whom you fly for, but attempting to interpolate it like the arbs for 10/2010

per 10/2000 snapshot
if LUAL, 820 out of approx 6300 active jobs brought to the merger, 13%
if LCAL, 820 out of approx 4600 active jobs brought to the merger, 17.8%
2390 out of the approx 10900 total active jobs brought to the merger, 21.9%

Or looking at it another way.

Looking at total pilots, including inactive positions per 10/2000
if LUAL, 820 out of 7669 pilots, 10.7%
if LCAL, 820 out of 4786 pilots, 17.1%
2390 out of the 12155 pilots, 19.6%

I'm still not getting a similar result. However, I'm not sure how merging 2 companies together could have created an expectation of similar retirement number, but surely to be compared to similar retirement percentage. Help my math/logic out. Thanks

 

[chppr5]

I'm not sure whom you fly for, but attempting to interpolate it like the arbs for 10/2010

per 10/2000 snapshot
if LUAL, 820 out of approx 6300 active jobs brought to the merger, 13%
if LCAL, 820 out of approx 4600 active jobs brought to the merger, 17.8%
2390 out of the approx 10900 total active jobs brought to the merger, 21.9%

Or looking at it another way.

Looking at total pilots, including inactive positions per 10/2000
if LUAL, 820 out of 7669 pilots, 10.7%
if LCAL, 820 out of 4786 pilots, 17.1%
2390 out of the 12155 pilots, 19.6%

I'm still not getting a similar result. However, I'm not sure how merging 2 companies together could have created an expectation of similar retirement number, but surely to be compared to similar retirement percentage. Help my math/logic out. Thanks

Your math is fine. The reason the %'s are extreme is because they use their seniority as of Aug 2013 rather than 10/2010. Also the double wammy is the cross overs, instead of staying below the LCAL pilots for the ISL they moved ahead with the 35% longevity score which takes away the buffer at the bottom of the list.

 

[bluefin]

820 to 2390 at retirement, - 34% thats a screw job, but oh well just deal with it folks!!!!

Same metal you do! Just started about 8 yrs before. Those are numbers for my retirement year of 2033. 820 is from DOH at LUAL.

Twice furloughed, forever FU%^&$!!!!

 

[whatitdoing?]

I've had a few beers reading this crap.......blood pressure normal......who cares. Move on people. Bigger things to worry about.

 

[Shrek]

I've had a few beers reading this crap.......blood pressure normal......who cares. Move on people. Bigger things to worry about.

Pass me a beer before we switch the channel !!