Questions for G200 drivers

[CitationCapt]

Hello,

I have a few performance questions for experienced G200 drivers.

1) What could be the maximum range out of ASE with 4 pax at 70F. (Take into account APG or any other performance program to calculate weight).

2) Maximum range with 8 pax, 80F out of a 5,000' long runway. Using same programs.

Thank you.

CC

 

[pair_of_pratts]

1) Almost 1000 NM

2) Almost 1500 NM

(Assuming BOW of about 20,300 lbs, 200 lbs per pax + 50 lbs of bags per pax, hourly fuel burn of 2500 the first hour, 2000 the second and 1800 the third, landing with around 2000 lbs reserve and block speed of around 440 kts at the maximum weight that the runway analysis came up with. Should be vague enough to avoid much dispute while still giving ballpark numbers.)

 

[CitationCapt]

Anyone fly the CL300?

pair_of_pratts,

Thank you for looking at this. I suspected the numbers you came up with, but needed your experienced viewpoint.


Now, if someone flying the Challenger 300 could answer the same questions, as the "marketing" numbers I found say 2,382nm and 2,854nm respectively. Could they be that high?

CC

 

[BoilerUP]

CL30 requires substantially less runway than the G200 does.

 

[svcta]

I can't quote specifics, but I do know that the Challenger 300 is a more capable airplane in terms of runway performance. The G-200 does okay until you start throwing in contamination. And that does make it a little difficult to plan trips when you have to really start studying the conditions if it starts to rain. The guidance that was given by Gulfstream a little over a year ago (or so) on what was considered to be a contaminated runway is pretty liberal so there is, in fact, a good window to hit, but the main difference seems to be that the Challenger can just do it under more circumstances than the G-200 with less hair splitting. Our department's philosophy is pretty much that if it's raining it's a wet runway. I'm not going to measure the depth of the water on the runway. The guys that fly the Challengers indicate to me that the numbers, even when considering bad weather, are pretty impressive off the runway.

 

[t-bone]

CL30 #s: aspen

Using APG Runway Analysis,

22C MATOW dry rwy 35540#s (Field Length Limited, flaps 10)

35540
24325 (bow)
- 800 (pax)
------------
10415 #s FOB.

1500#s is just over 45 minutes reserve, so with 8900#s to burn, that'll get you just over 4 .5 hours down the road (2500 1st hour, 1800 2nd hr, 1700/hr after that). We cruise at 460 KTAS all day long....2070 miles, zero wind

MATOW flaps 20 goes up to 36522, obstacle limited. VMC climb limit weight is 37964.

PM me your email address and I'll be happy to send you the PDF files of any runway analysis for the CL30 you need.

Hope this helps.

 

[t-bone]

CL30 #s: 5000' rwy

8 pax, 80F (28C), using flaps 20

35895 is your Obstacle clearance limit (IMC climb)
38850 is your VMC climb limit weight

Flaps 10;

35706-IMC climb limited weight
38850 VMC climb limit

range w 8 pax (1600#s) using flaps 20:

just under 4.5 hours: 2024 NM @460 ktas

(and if my math is off on any of these, its cuz I'm tired and should be sleeping right now!)

 

[t-bone]

pair_of_pratts,

Thank you for looking at this. I suspected the numbers you came up with, but needed your experienced viewpoint.


Now, if someone flying the Challenger 300 could answer the same questions, as the "marketing" numbers I found say 2,382nm and 2,854nm respectively. Could they be that high?

CC

I'm guessing these weights are based on VMC climbs where you are maintaining your own terrain clearance. The distances I gave you were based on the more restrictive IMC climb requirements. The only scenario I gave you where the 300 was field length limited was flaps 10 out of aspen. The other situations were Obstable climb limited, and I think those all had VMC climb limits of max gross, 38850, so the marketing #s you were provided don't seem to be too far off.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

CL30 requires substantially less runway than the G200 does.

There's an understatement!

While it has a decent cabin for the price, you will be hard pressed to find a modern bizjet with as poor perf #'s as a G200.

 

[CitationCapt]

Thanks T-Bone for your data. This helps alot with my comparison of the G200 vs CL300.


CC

 

[t-bone]

Thanks T-Bone for your data. This helps alot with my comparison of the G200 vs CL300.


CC

No prob. Let me know if you need anything else.

 

[johnsonrod]

Thanks T-Bone for your data. This helps alot with my comparison of the G200 vs CL300.
CC

Both are great airplanes from what I hear - nice and roomy for the pax. What really matters: CL300 wins HANDS DOWN on ramp appeal... It just looks cooler. I know a Netjets driver who refers to the G200 as "G too ugly."

 

[jonjuan]

There's an understatement!

While it has a decent cabin for the price, you will be hard pressed to find a modern bizjet with as poor perf #'s as a G200.

No kidding. The G200 loves her runway. A few runway overruns in the G200 while the cl300 has had none. Of course it's a galaxy and not a g-stream.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

No kidding. The G200 loves her runway. A few runway overruns in the G200 while the cl300 has had none. Of course it's a galaxy and not a g-stream.

well...usually the runway over-runs are a result of the people flying them, not the airplane itself, regardless of the maker.

I cant think of any aircraft with more off road time than the Falcon 900, and its certainly a good airplane with better perf #'s than any Challenger made.......OK, so it does not like to stop. LOL.

And no son, its a Grumman.

It says "Gulfstream" right on the yoke where us pilots can look at it. Didn't you know thats why they kept a yoke on the Grumman G650? Its a constant and vitally important reminder of a pilots accomplishments. Another true testament to Gulfstreams commit to developing aviation icons - just like the winglets on a GIV.

 

[jet2work]

And no son, its a Grumman.

It says "Gulfstream" right on the yoke where us pilots can look at it. Didn't you know thats why they kept a yoke on the Grumman G650? Its a constant and vitally important reminder of a pilots accomplishments. Another true testament to Gulfstreams commit to developing aviation icons - just like the winglets on a GIV.

Too funny. I am surprised that some enterprising Westwind pilot hasn't rebranded the Westwind into the Gulfstream G050. Gulfstream sounds so much better when you are talking on the radio or chatting at the bar. It's kinda like sayin' "you wanna head back to my mobile estate?" You see. Much more classier.

 

[BoilerUP]

I've got a few performance questions...

What kind of range does the G200 have at 0.80M? What fuel flows do you see at 0.80 and FL410? Are FL430/450 ever really usable?

 

[taxi1wire]

We see roughly 1850PPH at M80 FL 390. We only get to FL410 as you can guess at about the last third of a long leg at the lightest of weights. We have never gone to 430 nor attempted.

 

[jet2work]

Here is a Cocklin DeDecker report online. It will give you an idea of costs and range etc.. Take a close look at the OEI climb number. I have not flown the aircraft, but by the looks of it, if you don't go anywhere hot and high, or operate regularly out of places with short runways, this aircraft will make your pax very happy. The cabin is nice, the cockpit out of date. Also, Gulfstream tech support is outstanding (I'm guessing same holds true for the G200 series).

http://www.jetsearch.com/attachments/CdD/g-200%20ccd.pdf